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Hormuz Minesweeper – Are you tired of winning?

hormuz.pythonic.ninja

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Re: Hormuz Minesweeper – Are you tired of winning?

#421

Post by OvidNaso »

philipallstar wrote: post #395
malfist wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess if someone else is killing innocent people it makes it fine for us to kill innocent people too.

Accidentally killing someone in service of destroying a military is not as bad as a regime just deliberately killing its citizens, no.

But at some point incompetence crossing the line to being gross and shifts the moral balance as well. This wasn't a 'deep in the fog of war' situation, that girls school was part of an opening strike package...and because of that, we need to find out more, but that "deliberately" is an open question with the facts we have now.

Re: Hormuz Minesweeper – Are you tired of winning?

#422

Post by AnimalMuppet »

joe_mamba wrote: post #169
mppm wrote: post #116

Thank you for Making Minesweeper Great Again!

We're gonna build a wall(ed garden) and have the Linux penguins pay for it.

The penguins who are running the servers for your walled garden? Good luck with that. Let me know how it works out for you.

Re: Hormuz Minesweeper – Are you tired of winning?

#423

Post by torginus »

Pay08 wrote: post #369
torginus wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not a military guy, but I would think you can make mines nowadays that do exactly that.

With what communication protocol? Does high-frequency radio have the range for that?

I was thinking you could run a fiber optic cable. Those have proven themselves to work over 10s of miles in Ukraine with drones.

Re: Hormuz Minesweeper – Are you tired of winning?

#424

Post by watwut »

gruez wrote: post #261
10xDev wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>none of them would be advanced by bombing a girls school. no shit... this is not proof of a mistake.

>this is not proof of a mistake. The "proof" of the mistake is Hanlon's razor and the fact that the school was adjacent a military facility and the building itself used to be for military purposes.

> Hanlon's razor

At this point, Hanlon's razor should be considered a fallacy.

In fact, quite a lot of what looked like incompetence was malice. Intentional and proud malice. It does not mean there is no incompetence, but Hanlon's razor is no longer valid.

Second, army working group meant to ensure these mistakes wont happen was dismantled by Hegseth. All the while he framed such efforts as woke nonsense and praised lethality only. He was sending clear message about what matters to troops

The system was changed to allow and facilite errors like that.

Re: Hormuz Minesweeper – Are you tired of winning?

#425

Post by watwut »

wholinator2 wrote: post #296
malfist wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What part of "doing the right thing" is bombing an all girls school?

Okay, let's compare. How many iranians has the regime killed over the last few months. They've said they would continue indiscriminately killing as long as it took, the regime would literally destroy Iran rather than let go of their dreams of Muslim empire. They killed tens of thousands of people. Every persian person i know or have even heard about had been highly supportive of the war, with the singular goal of rep…

The chance of Iran having regime replaced dropped to, like, zero.

Besides, Israel wont allow democratic or other functional regime change. Their goal is failed state with forever civil war in it. Something they can regularly bomb whenever it will seem functional. This can still happen, so everyone around should be ready for refugees waves.

Trumps idea of regime change is replacing head for someone who pays him personally - while keeping regime in place. This wont happen now.

Iranian monarchists want own dictatorship, but wont be getting it either.

Iranians who protested were just fucked and that is all about it.

Re: Hormuz Minesweeper – Are you tired of winning?

#426

Post by Forgeties79 »

flyinglizard wrote: post #89
RealityVoid wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's rich, the guy threatening the existence of NATO more than any other factor is trying to bolster NATO. I struggle to imagine how you square this in your mind.

At the outset, he doesn't want to carry the burden of NATO alone. Maybe he has other strategic interests in mind where US deviates from the rest of the world (like Greenland) but he's entirely right that NATO really depends on the US. Trump's attitude towards NATO member state spend it widely publicized [0] so I don't think there's much to debate here. Trump wanted member states to spend more, not less. He was somewh…

> At the outset, he doesn't want to carry the burden of NATO alone.

The US chose to be the premiere military power and as a result reaped the benefits that come with having bases all over the world. This absurd claim by Trump that the relationship is one-sided is completely without merit. It was mutually beneficial, arguably better for the US. Just like being the world’s reserve currency. The complicated system of soft power reinforced by the threat of hard power that the US created over the last 80 years was no small feat and frankly we will never get that back now. Maybe it’s for the best! But this nonsense about NATO being a one-sided deal where Europe overwhelmingly benefits from US dollars/military presence is absolutely ridiculous and just another piece of evidence that Trump has no clue how foreign policy works.

Additionally, any argument about not wanting to spend all that money lacks legitimacy given how the administration is spending.

Re: Hormuz Minesweeper – Are you tired of winning?

#427

Post by zeristor »

gruez wrote: post #255
10xDev wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A double tap strike as well. Definitely no mistake: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2026_Minab_school_attack Edit: *triple tap.

From the same article: >Independent analysis of satellite imagery suggested that the school and the Sayyid al-Shuhada military complex had been struck near-simultaneously by air-delivered munitions.[39] The objectionable part of double/triple tap strike is that you're killing rescuers or aid workers. Otherwise from a morality perspective there's no meaningful difference between 1 bomb and 2/3 bombs, especially if the…

Don’t you mean “error”?

Due diligence isn’t really an option.

Re: Hormuz Minesweeper – Are you tired of winning?

#428

Post by mhb »

applfanboysbgon wrote: post #420
mhb wrote: post #418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> stop giving people reasons to be terrorists FFS they don't need reasons. Their stated goal and actions in support of it is the destruction of the apostatic free world. Your oppressed/oppressor narrative is vapid. Though terrorism is a tool they use, their goal is a caliphate with Sharia law.

You are literally brainwashed by American propaganda, JFC. Iranians do not hate you because you are free, they hate you because you are trying to control their country. Do you understand they are not movie villains? They are real people? Real people who would, in normal circumstances, prefer to live their lives peacefully? Imagine what it would take for you to decide the best way to spend your life is to strap a bomb…

Why are you making this about Muslims generally?

Re: Hormuz Minesweeper – Are you tired of winning?

#429

Post by applfanboysbgon »

mhb wrote: post #428
applfanboysbgon wrote: post #420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are literally brainwashed by American propaganda, JFC. Iranians do not hate you because you are free, they hate you because you are trying to control their country. Do you understand they are not movie villains? They are real people? Real people who would, in normal circumstances, prefer to live their lives peacefully? Imagine what it would take for you to decide the best way to spend your life is to strap a bomb…

Why are you making this about Muslims generally?

You were already going there.

> their goal is a caliphate with Sharia law.

Re: Hormuz Minesweeper – Are you tired of winning?

#430

Post by RealityVoid »

flyinglizard wrote: post #89
RealityVoid wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's rich, the guy threatening the existence of NATO more than any other factor is trying to bolster NATO. I struggle to imagine how you square this in your mind.

At the outset, he doesn't want to carry the burden of NATO alone. Maybe he has other strategic interests in mind where US deviates from the rest of the world (like Greenland) but he's entirely right that NATO really depends on the US. Trump's attitude towards NATO member state spend it widely publicized [0] so I don't think there's much to debate here. Trump wanted member states to spend more, not less. He was somewh…

Also, I took a look on the paper you linked. I have no idea what you want to prove with it, since it all but confirms the stance I already explained:

  "There was also a second related initiative, the European Defense Fund, that will support continental defense research and development. The projects were widely seen as attempts to address a long-standing American concern – that Europe lacks usable military equipment, and is overly reliant on Washington for military deployments.

  But instead of reacting with satisfaction that the continent was finally addressing a long-standing weakness, the United States expressed frustration, noting that the projects could decrease trans-Atlantic cooperation and could also cut out American defense companies from bidding on future European defense projects."
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