Honestly, if you are using any social media and expect to have privacy, you should be checked by a psychologist.
TikTok will not introduce end-to-end encryption, saying it makes users less safe
421–430 of 458 posts
Re: TikTok will not introduce end-to-end encryption, saying it makes users less safe
#422Earlier quoted context omitted.
> social networks need to be required to show how their algorithm works Hypothetically speaking: What if it's a neural network in which each user has his/her own unique weights which are undergoing frequent retraining? Would it not be an undue burden to necessitate the release of the weights every time they change? Also, what value would the weights have? We haven't yet hit the point of having neural networks with in…
The use of black boxes like neural networks is already effectively illegal in some governments for this very reason.
That's dumb.
Who defines what a black box is? Like, is it not alright to write all of your code in a hex editor targeting one specific ISA?
Is not alright to lose your code and have only the binaries to run?
Re: TikTok will not introduce end-to-end encryption, saying it makes users less safe
#423Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'd say that at minimum social networks need to be required to show how their algorithm works and allow users control over their data. They must be able to know why a content was served to them. Nowadays social networks are so pervasive in society, affecting it and molding it to unknown interests, that this is the bare minimum for a free society. Ideally, users should be able to modify the algorithm, so they can get…
> Nowadays social networks are so pervasive in society, affecting it and molding it to unknown interests I think this is the real issue. We should free ourselves from "social networks" such as Tiktok, Facebook, Instagram and others. Even with direct messages truly E2EE, they create countless other privacy problems. They enable surveillance of people at scale and should be completely shunned for that reason alone.
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Re: TikTok will not introduce end-to-end encryption, saying it makes users less safe
#424Earlier quoted context omitted.
> But what responsibilities do megacorps have? Right now, everyone seems to avoid this question Clear, simple, direct: Whatever was required of The Bell Telephone Company and nothing more.
Whatever was required of the new york times and nothing more. If the NYT publishes and advert or editorial, it's held accountable for the contents.
Touché!
The question is: Are social media services more similar to communications platforms or publishing platforms?
My reply obviously treats them like the former and yours like the latter.
Re: TikTok will not introduce end-to-end encryption, saying it makes users less safe
#425Earlier quoted context omitted.
> But what responsibilities do megacorps have? Right now, everyone seems to avoid this question Clear, simple, direct: Whatever was required of The Bell Telephone Company and nothing more.
I don’t remember reading about ads in phone calls, nor the complete mapping of customers behaviors to use in contexts not being the phone call. The apples to oranges in this comparison is probably top five on HN ever.
> nor the complete mapping of customers behaviors to use in contexts not being the phone call
This is because the telephone system was regulated with wiretapping laws, among others.
> I don’t remember reading about ads in phone calls
See above, but also: Junk Faxes & Telemarketing/Robocalls.
> The apples to oranges in this comparison is probably top five on HN ever.
It all comes down to whether you view social media as a communications platform or a publishing platform.
The strict regulations governing the telephone system (see above) would adequately cover both with deliciously-antique turns of phrase like "wiretap" and "pen register".
Re: TikTok will not introduce end-to-end encryption, saying it makes users less safe
#426I think this is... fine? Am I just totally naive. I think it's fine to say "You don't really have privacy on this app" - as long as there are relatively good options of apps that do have privacy (and I think there are). TikTok is really a public by default type of social media, there's not much idea of mutual following or closed groups. So sure, you don't have privacy on tiktok, if you want it you can move to snapcha…
It's fine except for their argument that it makes people less safe. If they want to disallow encryption they don't need to lie to people while they're at it.
Re: TikTok will not introduce end-to-end encryption, saying it makes users less safe
#427I think this is... fine? Am I just totally naive. I think it's fine to say "You don't really have privacy on this app" - as long as there are relatively good options of apps that do have privacy (and I think there are). TikTok is really a public by default type of social media, there's not much idea of mutual following or closed groups. So sure, you don't have privacy on tiktok, if you want it you can move to snapcha…
Tiktok has private messaging, and it is used by hundreds of millions of people. IMO no consumer service should have private 1:1 messaging without e2e. Either only do public messaging (ie. Like a forum), or implement e2e.
Lots of other consumer services such as Strava have direct messaging without e2e encryption. No privacy is guaranteed. This is fine, they're not deceiving anyone about how it works.
Re: TikTok will not introduce end-to-end encryption, saying it makes users less safe
#428Earlier quoted context omitted.
> There is a problem with schemes like that. /goes on to discuss how government legislation of specific schemes is the issue, not the schemes themselves. Then we don't legislate specific schemes? The GDPR doesn't do that, for instance, it spells out responsibilities and penalties but doesn't say "Though shalt use this specific algorithm". Remember, this discussion started with a call to ban all age checks , which its…
> Then we don't legislate specific schemes? Except that you have to in this case because IDs are issued by the government and then it's the government having to provide some privacy-protecting means of using them, which is the thing they're incapable of in practice. > There are ways that private entities can implement age checks both securely and without leaking much other information I have yet to see a single one i…
> it's the government having to provide some privacy-protecting means of using them
Nope, not necessarily.
> I have yet to see a single one implemented in real life.
There are likely to be a lot more coming as the newer standards in this area were finalised last year. Online identity is a continually evolving space.
> Moreover, private entities have the perverse incentive to do the opposite of implementing it securely, because they find it profitable to track people
Some do in some circumstances, but far from all. Others (often financial institutions) have wised up to PII being a liability rather than an opportunity and some are working on frameworks and capabilites in this space that don't involve any more storage or transfer of anyone's ID than already happens in banks.
Re: TikTok will not introduce end-to-end encryption, saying it makes users less safe
#429Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Age verification should be banned Why? > They already got so much data on their users There are a variety of ways (see "Verifiable Credentials") that ages can be verified without handing over any data other than "Is old enough" to social media services.
The problem with this discussion is that this is a wonk solution for wonkish times. You're trying to thread the needle between various reasonable compromises. Ironically due to social media, that is simply not how politics and lawmaking works any more. Instead it's an emotionally driven fight between various different sorts of moral panic, and the only option is to get people more mad about surveillance than "think o…
> You might be able to get somewhere by getting a tech company on your side
There are quite a few already looking at this, some in the context of providing secure verification services for the existing and upcoming social media bans etc.
Unfortunately I agree with you on the rest - facts and pragmatism have fallen by the wayside compared to feels and shouting.
Re: TikTok will not introduce end-to-end encryption, saying it makes users less safe
#430Earlier quoted context omitted.
Whatever was required of the new york times and nothing more. If the NYT publishes and advert or editorial, it's held accountable for the contents.
Touché! The question is: Are social media services more similar to communications platforms or publishing platforms? My reply obviously treats them like the former and yours like the latter.
Posts made are like the letters page in my view, but even if you don't believe that should be controlled, when it comes to the adverts these publish surely it has to be the latter.
Personally I argue they are more like a newspaper as they are providing a platform. Your ISP is more like a phone company or postal service as they just transport packets from one person to another.
Cloudflare and similar are more arguable, but to my mind if you host a computer you are responsible for the contents stored on that computer.