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Will vibe coding end like the maker movement?

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Re: Will vibe coding end like the maker movement?

#421

Post by Windchaser »

inigyou wrote: post #157
jmull wrote: post #64

> The central promise—that distributed digital fabrication would bring manufacturing back to America, that every city would have micro-factories, that 3D printing would decentralize production—simply didn’t materialize. I never heard that. It didn’t seem like 3D-printing ever showed sings of displacing existing ways of manufacturing at scale, did it? Units per hour and dollars per unit was never its strength. It was…

It was promised but it never materialised. Everyone was saying we'd all have a 3D printer at home and there'd be no market for niche products any more because we'd just print them on demand.

Just a couple days ago, I remembered hearing "what will app-making industry be like, when you can just ask a LLM to make you one whenever you want?"

Re: Will vibe coding end like the maker movement?

#422

Post by bandrami »

peteforde wrote: post #391
anon7000 wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you’ve done a good job disproving your point that no one is buying them. Golf is a very popular hobby. The point of this thread: the maker movement isn’t dead simply because most people don’t care about CNC machines. In reality, there are loads of makers & people who love tinkering and building things for themselves, it’s easier than ever to do so (and to build very non-trivial products for yourself), and mor…

Also, there is a massive tropical aquarium store in a random strip mall a few blocks from my house. It takes up like three units. I don't know why I let myself get triggered by some rando who has convinced himself that just because he doesn't do something it must not be popular, but here I am.

Yeah, I don't get why what I said bugged you so much either. This is downthread of people talking about the idea that was pretty current maybe 15 years ago that 3D printers were going to be like washing machines and everybody would just print whatever they needed at home. Instead, it's a somewhat niche hobby that never really broke out into widespread use.

Re: Will vibe coding end like the maker movement?

#423

Post by Animats »

Animats wrote: post #267
inigyou wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was promised but it never materialised. Everyone was saying we'd all have a 3D printer at home and there'd be no market for niche products any more because we'd just print them on demand.

I heard the CEO of Autodesk giving a talk saying that. As a stockholder, I was disappointed. Just because his daughter could make dollhouse toys with a 3D printer didn't mean it was going to take over manufacturing.

Former CEO, not the current one.

Re: Will vibe coding end like the maker movement?

#424

Post by aforwardslash »

slopinthebag wrote: post #262
aforwardslash wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, because you don't see value in it, you assume its the same for everyone. Got it. Also, its not about if there are better or more reliable options; that's the opposite of the maker mentality - you do it because it is useful, it is fun or just because you enjoy doing it. Such as designing some light fixture, printing it, and illuminating it with an esp32 and some ws2812 leds. Yah you could spend an afternoon coding…

If you are vibe coding something it's not for the experience of learning, challenging yourself, or accomplishment - it's purely about the end result, the artefact. So asking "what is the purpose of this thing" is actually quite relevant in respect to vibe coding .

Coding is just one of many possible skills you use as a maker; do you think everyone into 3d printing is a stm32 programmer or designs and manufactures their own pcb's? Of course not. Software is just a component. If your kick is software, great; but it doesnt need to be. Also, just because you use an LLM it doesnt mean one is not learning; how do you think you learned how to speak?

Re: Will vibe coding end like the maker movement?

#425

Post by tcoff91 »

jpadkins wrote: post #119
tcoff91 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the explosion in software produced with AI by lay-people will mean that those with offensive security skills, who can crack and exploit software systems, will have incredible power over others.

are you sure that AI generated code will be more vulnerable than a median software engineer? Why?

I think that when a software system is used by more people and has more eyes on it, it's more likely to have its security flaws be found and fixed. Then all the users will benefit from the fix.

The more that software is fragmented into bespoke applications used by small numbers of people, the less people benefit from security network effects.

Re: Will vibe coding end like the maker movement?

#426

Post by the_af »

sarchertech wrote: post #420
the_af wrote: post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Generally speaking, my feeling is that most code doesn't need to be carefully-crafted. We have error budgets for a reason, and AI is just shifting how we allocate them. It's only in certain roles where small mistakes can end your company - think hedge funds, aerospace, etc. - where there's safety in the non-determinism argument. That's a bit shortsighted. There have been cries of software becoming needlessly bloate…

Even in CRUD line of business software, lack of performance causes enormous problems that the current software development culture glosses over. Just one example I've seen time and again. You take an application that if optimized could run on a single server (maybe 2 if you absolutely have to have zero downtime deployments), but because no one cares about performance it runs on 10 or more. You now have a complexity a…

Agreed. I wanted to give some credence to the fact many cookie-cutter CRUD apps can absorb a ton of inefficiencies until they truly burst at the seams, but yeah, even in that case software bloat and bad use of resources matters.

I find it intriguing seeing this new batch of dev-types completely giving up on the matter. The conversation of machine vs developer efficiency is not new, but completely giving up on any sane use of resources is something relatively new, I think. Especially coming from some in the HN crowd. Maybe these are new people, so I can chalk it up to generational turnover?

Re: Will vibe coding end like the maker movement?

#427

Post by peteforde »

alnwlsn wrote: post #413
peteforde wrote: post #307

I've got to be honest: my complete skepticism that the maker movement is somehow past tense makes it extremely difficult for me to take this tenuous comparison to LLM coding particularly seriously. The author talks about lowered barriers to prototyping as though they represent a failure state; that's absurd, and it has absolutely nothing to do with whether most people have membership-based maker spaces nearby. Meanwh…

The maker movement probably is a failure if you're an economist. Nothing could be worse for the economy than people buying less domestic products in favor making their own stuff, and sending more of their paychecks to China to get more cheap circuit boards, machines, and components. And of course I'm not going to be setting up a "mini factory", I don't feel like it and I already got the one thing I made that I wanted…

If this is how an us vs them scenario is being framed, you're making a very strong case for the team I've chosen.

It sounds like you're describing winners and losers, but it's shaky ground when you realize many people simply aren't motivated to think like an economist.

Given the choice between spending my life doing interesting things and accumulating wealth, I'm quite comfortable knowing how I'll look back on things from the end.

BTW: you say "of course you're not going to be setting up a mini factory" to someone who quite literally has a mini factory in their house. I'm on Hacker News to hang out with other people who think that's awesome, not some misaligned economic philosophy.

Re: Will vibe coding end like the maker movement?

#428

Post by peteforde »

bandrami wrote: post #422
peteforde wrote: post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, there is a massive tropical aquarium store in a random strip mall a few blocks from my house. It takes up like three units. I don't know why I let myself get triggered by some rando who has convinced himself that just because he doesn't do something it must not be popular, but here I am.

Yeah, I don't get why what I said bugged you so much either. This is downthread of people talking about the idea that was pretty current maybe 15 years ago that 3D printers were going to be like washing machines and everybody would just print whatever they needed at home. Instead, it's a somewhat niche hobby that never really broke out into widespread use.

You misunderstand what I said. I know why it bugs me - it's because your perspective is demonstrably wrong - and I'm sad that I still feel compelled to refute your lazy, cynical perspective.

I don't know why someone who thinks like you hangs out on Hacker News. Wouldn't you be more at home on Passive Consumer News? I'd suggest you go make that real, except... never mind.

Re: Will vibe coding end like the maker movement?

#429

Post by peteforde »

fao_ wrote: post #407
peteforde wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, okay but... look, I concede that someone who shouldn't be doing anything except watching passive entertainment could absolutely take insane advice from an LLM (or a sociopathic human) and seriously hurt themselves. But raw dogging capacitors in CRTs is such an overtly straw man argument in this conversation. People who are cleaning bathrooms for the first time can hopefully be trusted not to drink the bleach, r…

Don't worry, LLMs are perfectly ok for getting information. Just ask drugs.com about penisomab https://bsky.app/profile/harrisonk.bsky.social/post/3mfs6adw...

Again: not doing anything at all with health or chemistry. They aren't what I am interested in, even peripherally.

What you seem to be missing is that LLMs are better at/for some things than others. Legal review, 3D geometry, therapy and apparently chemistry are off the list.

It doesn't make sense to project that onto domains where it excels.

Re: Will vibe coding end like the maker movement?

#430

Post by peteforde »

switchbak wrote: post #417
peteforde wrote: post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, there is a massive tropical aquarium store in a random strip mall a few blocks from my house. It takes up like three units. I don't know why I let myself get triggered by some rando who has convinced himself that just because he doesn't do something it must not be popular, but here I am.

Taylor Swift is very popular, therefore no one listens to anything but pop music. It's a very low effort argument. Obviously such a pursuit is going to never be something 1/2 of people do, you need: - space - ambition - aptitude - money - tolerance for huge amounts of frustration - some ability and openness to learn rapidly - enough time to devote to it - a space to allow noisy things to run for hours - the ability t…

I really appreciate and enjoy the perspectives that you've added to this conversation; thank you.

I will admit that as a whole, this thread has made me super sad even while I'm confident pg would say that most people revealing themselves to be uninspired pessimists can be seen as a major source of opportunity for hackers.

I just wish that so many people weren't so easy to slot into the matrix, if you know what I'm saying.

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