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Keep Android Open

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Re: Keep Android Open

#421

Post by raw_anon_1111 »

GaryBluto wrote: post #403
raw_anon_1111 wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So yes if it weren’t for people wanting convenience the “Year of Linux on the Desktop” would have happened 25 years ago. What do you suggest? Everyone carry around their desktop computers and our CRT monitors like we did when we wanted to play Quake with friends?

> What do you suggest? Everyone carry around their desktop computers and our CRT monitors like we did when we wanted to play Quake with friends? The exercise would do people good. Jokes aside though, there is a nuance between completely inconvenient and designed for the marching morons.

You mean 80% of adults worldwide are “morons”? Have you ever thought that they may know something you don’t know?

Re: Keep Android Open

#423

Post by raw_anon_1111 »

b00ty4breakfast wrote: post #407
raw_anon_1111 wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So yes if it weren’t for people wanting convenience the “Year of Linux on the Desktop” would have happened 25 years ago. What do you suggest? Everyone carry around their desktop computers and our CRT monitors like we did when we wanted to play Quake with friends?

yes, getting emails or text messages instead of having app alerts is luddism. Get real, dawg

Uhh yes - when 90% of adults worldwide have moved to smart phones - yes you are the Luddite.

Email is for old people has been a meme for two decades

https://www.techdirt.com/2007/11/15/email-is-for-old-people/

Re: Keep Android Open

#424

Post by matheusmoreira »

arcanemachiner wrote: post #148
fermigier wrote: post #62

It is a disgrace how Google has managed this situation. To recap the storyline, as far as I understand it: last August, Google announced plans to heavily restrict sideloading. Following community pushback, they promised an "advanced flow" for power users. The media widely reported this as a walk-back, leading users to assume the open ecosystem was safe. But this promised feature hasn't appeared in any Android 16 or 1…

If this finally pushes adoption of truly open Linux phones, then this will end up being a good thing, and the greatest favor that Google could do for the open source community. Tragically, Linux phones have languished and are in an absolute state these days, but a lot of the building blocks are in place if user adoption occurs en masse. (Shout out to the lunatics who have kept this dream alive during these dark years…

There's no point. Remote attestation means your device needs to be corporate owned to be trusted. Even if you had your own linux phone, it wouldn't be able to interface with institutions such as banks and governments. They trust Google's keys, not yours. This doesn't quite end free computing, it just kills it for normal people and ostracizes us hackers who insist on owning our systems.

Re: Keep Android Open

#425

Post by kevincox »

blueg3 wrote: post #418
kevincox wrote: post #395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mostly agree with your points. > > That users won't be able to install what they want > No, sideloading will still work, but it won't work if the APK isn't signed by someone in the Google developer registry. So the user can't install what they want. They can only install stuff signed by developers Google has "approved". Yes, in the happy situation this is everything except for developers that Google has revoked. Bu…

That's pedantically fair. I broke up a longer statement: > That users won't be able to install what they want and that they would need a google account to install apps It was split up because "need a Google account to install apps" is strictly untrue, but "won't be able to install what they want" is more nuanced. I did clearly say, "it won't work if the APK isn't signed by someone in the Google developer registry". S…

Yeah, I get you. I think the main misunderstanding from the original comment is that the *user* won't need a Google account, only the *developer* (signer to be technical) will.

Re: Keep Android Open

#426

Post by wilkystyle »

ipdashc wrote: post #317
cwillu wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It won't though, because there's a ecosystem of banking/insurance/whatever apps that have bought into the android/iphone lockdown mindsete that people will simply be locked out of. Open alternatives can grow when there is a viable means of slow growth, and cutting off the oxygen to such things is the implicit intent.

> banking/insurance/whatever apps I know banking apps are the typical example, but I've always wondered why. I use my bank's app maybe once or twice a year when I need to Zelle someone, which I only need to do when they don't have Venmo. (Unless we consider Venmo a banking app.) I only have one bank's app installed, the rest of my banks I only interact with over their website, on desktop. As for insurance, I've never…

You're definitely not alone. I just checked the list of installed apps on my phone and found three different banking apps that I completely forgot about because I never use them. I installed them because I thought it would be convenient for checking things on the go, but I actually just end up using the computer whenever I need to do real banking business. The only finance-related app I use with any regularity is Venmo for e.g. paying back a friend for covering dinner.

Another commenter mentioned needing to get alerts for fraud, but none of the financial institutions i'm currently doing business with have any trouble sending me text messages. In fact I have the opposite problem, I can't get them to stop using text for 2FA codes...

Re: Keep Android Open

#427

Post by jadbox »

matheusmoreira wrote: post #424
arcanemachiner wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If this finally pushes adoption of truly open Linux phones, then this will end up being a good thing, and the greatest favor that Google could do for the open source community. Tragically, Linux phones have languished and are in an absolute state these days, but a lot of the building blocks are in place if user adoption occurs en masse. (Shout out to the lunatics who have kept this dream alive during these dark years…

There's no point. Remote attestation means your device needs to be corporate owned to be trusted. Even if you had your own linux phone, it wouldn't be able to interface with institutions such as banks and governments. They trust Google's keys, not yours. This doesn't quite end free computing, it just kills it for normal people and ostracizes us hackers who insist on owning our systems.

Not sure what gov require, but most credit unions do not use such lockdowns

Re: Keep Android Open

#428

Post by CodeBit26 »

The shift towards locked-down ecosystems is concerning for developers. Openness isn't just about freedom; it's about the longevity of the hardware we own. If we can't side-load or audit, we're just renting the device

Re: Keep Android Open

#429

Post by ameen »

Does this block something like Obtainium?

https://f-droid.org/packages/dev.imranr.obtainium.fdroid/

This is sad as there’s been a real resurgence of gaming devices (Ayn Thor/Odin, Retroid pocket devices, Ayaneo, etc) moving to Android from Linux variants (Batocera, Arc, Garlic/OnionOS).

It’s sad but more of an incentive for folks to finally take Linux as a viable alternative, and build on efforts made by Valve with SteamOS.

Re: Keep Android Open

#430

Post by candeira »

Denatonium wrote: post #329
cwillu wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It won't though, because there's a ecosystem of banking/insurance/whatever apps that have bought into the android/iphone lockdown mindsete that people will simply be locked out of. Open alternatives can grow when there is a viable means of slow growth, and cutting off the oxygen to such things is the implicit intent.

The best solution for this is to buy a $30 burner phone at Walmart and use it unactivated, tethered to your main de-Googled device. You can use the burner for only tasks requiring Play Integrity. Make sure to leave one star reviews on all such apps that you run into.

Yes. However, I already carry a tethered hand-me-down quarantine phone where I install my work apps and undesirable apps like Whatsapp (for those loved friends and family that can't or won't install Signal). Carrying a third phone for "Play Integrity" starts being a bit much.
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