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Trump's global tariffs struck down by US Supreme Court

bbc.com

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Re: Trump's global tariffs struck down by US Supreme Court

#421

Post by toomuchtodo »

clayhacks wrote: post #383
toomuchtodo wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a return of their capital illegally acquired by the federal government.

No the consumers paid the price of the tariffs. These refunds are going to businesses who just passed the price along

"Vote better next time I suppose" is the message to the electorate, because it would be impossible to return the funds to them due to diffusion.

The best you could do is perhaps model the additional per household cost (which has been done) and issue them checks from the Treasury (stimulus check style), but who is going to pay for it? The taxpayer! There is no way to incur this economic cost on the people who incurred the harm (this administration). You could potentially get the funds back from companies through higher corp taxes. Is Congress going to pass that? Certainly not. Them the breaks of electing Tariff Man. Does exactly what it says on the tin.

> ....I am a Tariff Man. When people or countries come in to raid the great wealth of our Nation, I want them to pay for the privilege of doing so. It will always be the best way to max out our economic power. We are right now taking in $billions in Tariffs. MAKE AMERICA RICH AGAIN 9:03 AM · Dec 4, 2018

https://x.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1069970500535902208 | https://archive.today/BBEmH

Historical lesson in governance failure. Can't change history, the outcome is regrettable, we can only try to do better in the future. Onward. Let the lesson not be for naught.

Re: Trump's global tariffs struck down by US Supreme Court

#422

Post by strongpigeon »

So, the majority decision makes sense to me, but I'm annoyed that they're unwilling to tackle whether there was an actual emergency or not. The was no "unusual and extraordinary" situation that happened to warrant this emergency declaration and judging what's "unusual and extraordinary" seems like something that falls pretty squarely in the Supreme Court's purview.

But no. The court pretty much says the president decides what's an emergency, leading us to having 51 active emergencies [0], with one starting back in 1979 (in response to the Iran hostage crisis) and with Trump leading the pack with 11 of such declarations. Congress didn't say "the president can just decide and that's it", but that's what's happening because of the SC's deferential posture.

Deferring so much to the political sphere (which is the reason behind this posture) is leading to a much less stable and more "swing-y" country.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_national_emergencies_i...

Re: Trump's global tariffs struck down by US Supreme Court

#423

Post by cdrnsf »

mothballed wrote: post #34
lokar wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Americans pay the tariffs

.gov can write the check back to Americans then, and disband ICE, CBP, the DEA, and the ATF to pay for it.

Better yet, dissolve ICE and DHS and send stimulus checks to folks with what used to be their budget.

Re: Trump's global tariffs struck down by US Supreme Court

#424

Post by rjrjrjrj »

mongol wrote: post #21
sschueller wrote: post #4

The global damage has been done. It took too long and it looks like it will only be partially reversed. Constitutional changes are required for other countries to trust in the stability of the US in the future.

> Constitutional changes are required for other countries to trust in the stability of the US in the future. For sure. Question is what would be enough to regain trust? I don't really see it happening

Dunno. More than half the country was either enthusiastically in favor of electing a convicted criminal pathological liar or too apathetic to do anything about it. How do you fix that?

Re: Trump's global tariffs struck down by US Supreme Court

#425

Post by zeroonetwothree »

jen729w wrote: post #14
sschueller wrote: post #4

The global damage has been done. It took too long and it looks like it will only be partially reversed. Constitutional changes are required for other countries to trust in the stability of the US in the future.

> Constitutional changes Y'all have proven how worthless that piece of paper is.

Doesn’t this decision exactly prove the opposite?

Re: Trump's global tariffs struck down by US Supreme Court

#426

Post by carlosjobim »

jjtwixman wrote: post #191
carlosjobim wrote: post #112

I'm just here to enjoy the endlessly fractal spiraling double-think of tariffs being the devil when the US implements them, and being double-plus-good when the European Union implements them (or China or South America). As hackers here are very intelligent but also very unwise, they find great enjoyment in double-think exercises and the resentment it gives them.

Tariffs are bad, there's no double think.

Then where are the hackers in this comment section calling out for the European Council to strike down European tariffs like the US supreme court did?

Where were they before Trump?

Re: Trump's global tariffs struck down by US Supreme Court

#427

Post by 01100011 »

Well, the good news for Trump and other elites is that we will all take a day off from discussing the Epstein files and wondering

- why no one in America is being charged

- why the files were so heavily redacted in violation of congress

- why the redactions were tailored to protect the names of some powerful people and not victims

Trump started talking about aliens yesterday. If the tariffs and aliens can't get people distracted from the Epstein filed then we'll be bombing Iran in 2 weeks...

Re: Trump's global tariffs struck down by US Supreme Court

#428

Post by dmix »

tokai wrote: post #407
apexalpha wrote: post #136

It's odd to me that something as fundamental as 'can the President unilaterally impose tariffs on any country he wants anytime he wants' is apparently so ill defined in law that 9 justices can't agree on it.

In normal democracies you have multiple parties, so there is a much better chance of creating a coalition around the government and force election/impeachment if the leadership goes rouge. The US system turned out to be as fragile as it looks.

The failure of the US is not so much in judicial system (with some recent exceptions) mostly in how weak Congress has been for over a decade as executive power expands (arguably since Bush and including during Obama). The system was designed to prevent that from happening from the very beginning with various layers of checks on power, but the public keeps wanting a president to blame and fix everything. The judicial branch has been much more consistent on this matter with some recent exceptions with the Unitary executive theory becoming more popular in the courts.

Ultimately no system can't stop that if there is a societal culture that tolerates the drumbeat of authoritarianism and centralization of power.

Re: Trump's global tariffs struck down by US Supreme Court

#429

Post by zeroonetwothree »

dylan604 wrote: post #120
apawloski wrote: post #83

Great news for people who had to bend over backwards pretending this disruptive, nakedly corrupt behavior was "good, actually." But unfortunately, there are other channels for them to effectively do the same thing, as discussed in oral arguments. So still not a major win for American manufacturers or consumers, I fear.

Sure, but now SCOTUS can say they are not a rubber stamp for POTUS. "See, we just ruled against him. Sure, it's a case that doesn't really solve anything and only causes more chaos, but we disagreed with him. This one time."

When they rule for Trump it’s proof they are just a rubber stamp. When they rule against Trump it’s somehow also proof they are a rubber stamp?

Re: Trump's global tariffs struck down by US Supreme Court

#430

Post by bonsai_spool »

zeroonetwothree wrote: post #405
bradleyjg wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kavanaugh clearly isn’t in the same bucket. His votes go either way. I don’t recall seeing a single decision this administration where either Alito or Thomas wrote against a White House position. Not just in case opinions but even in an order. I don’t think we’ve seen a justice act as a stalking horse for the president in this way since Fortas.

Weren’t Sotomator and Jackson the same with Biden? Kagan is much more principled.

> Weren’t Sotomator and Jackson the same with Biden? Kagan is much more principled

Very respectfully, there is no comparison between Trump and Biden in this respect. Indeed, the court adopted a new legal concept, the Major Questions Doctrine, to limit Biden continuing the Trump student loan forbearance.

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