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France dumps Zoom and Teams as Europe seeks digital autonomy from the US

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Re: France dumps Zoom and Teams as Europe seeks digital autonomy from the US

#421

Post by paulfitz »

flowerlad wrote: post #389
mkl wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not open source though?

Right but it is cheaper than open source products if you self-host. Most open source products in this space, including grist, are only partially open source.

[grist employee here] Grist forms are open source and were used to keep the toilets clean at FOSDEM just a few days ago https://fosstodon.org/@grist/116001932837956733

Everything you see in our standard docker image is open source. Yes, you can enable and pay for enterprise features too.

Re: France dumps Zoom and Teams as Europe seeks digital autonomy from the US

#422

Post by amelius »

WhyNotHugo wrote: post #247
input_sh wrote: post #167

Worth pointing out: France is not adopting existing open source software, they're building their own software and releasing it under the MIT licence. Most of it (or all of it?) is Django backend + React frontend (using a custom-built UI kit). Home page for the entire suite (in French) with some screenshots: https://lasuite.numerique.gouv.fr/ Code bases are on GitHub and they use English there: https://github.com/suit…

> Code bases are on GitHub Not a very solid way to move away from American big tech :/

React is also from US, no?

Re: France dumps Zoom and Teams as Europe seeks digital autonomy from the US

#423

Post by chungy »

bigfudge wrote: post #382
chungy wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The US corporations are forced by law to always prioritize whoever represents the current US government Where do you get your information from? This is just plainly false. Heck, it runs afoul of the Constitution, so even if the government were to try something, it'd be smacked down real fast.

I don't know if you're joking, but if not you need to start paying attention to what has been happening in US courts recently.

Mind bringing up any concrete examples?

Re: France dumps Zoom and Teams as Europe seeks digital autonomy from the US

#424

Post by epolanski »

shevy-java wrote: post #192

Makes sense. This software dependency that Europe has on the USA is very, very bad - no just with regards to Zoom, but literally anything. The US corporations are forced by law to always prioritize whoever represents the current US government, and the current US government will remain hostile as long as it is in charge; but even afterwards it is quite logical to assume that any follow-up government will prioritize US…

France is the only country in Europe and likely the world that builds anything defense related in France. Pistols, machine guns, aircrafts, ships, helicopters, etc, it's all french.

Re: France dumps Zoom and Teams as Europe seeks digital autonomy from the US

#425

Post by epolanski »

yardie wrote: post #160
nonethewiser wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just goes to show how many structural problems there are to starting tech companies in Europe.

Yes, the problem is capital. US has loads of it and Europe does not. So a lot of European startups have 3 options: remain niche, get bought out buy US investors, move the corporate seat/brain trust to the US. There are many small European startups who do not have infrastructure to take on large European multinationals as clients. A lot of EU labor laws have hard requirements at 50 and 100 employees so startups stay b…

I don't think capital is that much of a problem.

We have it, and it's been growing consistently.

What we lack is risk appetite, young people dreaming to be entrepreneurs, talent, a truly unified market, regulations and proper corporate law. Say what you want but stock options essentially don't exist in Europe, so you either give equity upfront or you don't at all.

Re: France dumps Zoom and Teams as Europe seeks digital autonomy from the US

#426

Post by PlatoIsADisease »

France speaks for Europe? Heh heh heh...

France wants to really really reallllllyyyy believe they do.

Poland and Germany lets France say such fanciful words, but they keep their actual thoughts for themselves. They know France has an Adler inferiority complex, so they let them pretend.

Re: France dumps Zoom and Teams as Europe seeks digital autonomy from the US

#427

Post by epolanski »

ifwinterco wrote: post #231
ericmay wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well the other large advantage is that the US is one single market with one common language (English) and while there are variations by state, pretty much one set of rules. So by starting a company in the United States you of course have access to incredibly deep capital markets, but you also have access to 350 million people mostly operating under one set of rules with one common language and largely one common cult…

It's one of the big ironies of the EU - every time it gets larger (good! increases market size) it also gets more fragmented in terms of languages, retained local rules etc. (bad, obviously). Now up to 24 official languages and still potentially growing in the future (although this is a bit of an overcount because some of them are mutually intelligible to various degrees, it's still a lot). It's interesting to think…

I've been working with European companies for a decade, language is not a barrier for scaling, local laws are.

E.g. why eu has some laws in terms of data and privacy, local laws take precedence (unlike in e.g. agriculture that it's entirely EU's business). Scaling across borders is expensive and difficult for regulatory reasons.

Re: France dumps Zoom and Teams as Europe seeks digital autonomy from the US

#428

Post by PlatoIsADisease »

GaryBluto wrote: post #177
tyre wrote: post #23

As an American, this is awesome to see. We should pay penalties for our abandonment of good faith global engagement. And economic damage really is the key to the heart of these United States of Three Corporations in a Trench Coat. We’ve seen companies and CEOs paying millions in bribes to be close to the president. Now this aligns their financial interests with shifting our foreign policy. Not how it ought to work, b…

It's so strange reading all these comments from Americans begging to be punished for collective misdeeds. It reads as unsettlingly masochistic.

I would say with basically 100% certainty who they voted for, for president.

Cognitive bias is brutal. They have no idea what they are doing to their own self interests.

Re: France dumps Zoom and Teams as Europe seeks digital autonomy from the US

#429

Post by PlatoIsADisease »

melesian wrote: post #63
BurningFrog wrote: post #19

Note that this is only about European governments choosing to not use US software.

You can be very sure that millions of Europeans and large numbers of businesses are finding alternatives.

I was going to say 'No way, profit > idealistic moral virtues'. But I could totally see Europe knee capping themselves. Look at how their food is inferior to the US because they stick to tradition.

I can totally see themselves doing this out of pride/humiliation.

Re: France dumps Zoom and Teams as Europe seeks digital autonomy from the US

#430

Post by epolanski »

GaryBluto wrote: post #177
tyre wrote: post #23

As an American, this is awesome to see. We should pay penalties for our abandonment of good faith global engagement. And economic damage really is the key to the heart of these United States of Three Corporations in a Trench Coat. We’ve seen companies and CEOs paying millions in bribes to be close to the president. Now this aligns their financial interests with shifting our foreign policy. Not how it ought to work, b…

It's so strange reading all these comments from Americans begging to be punished for collective misdeeds. It reads as unsettlingly masochistic.

I think the general vibe is more of a "let's learn a small lesson now than a severe one long term".

I'm an eu freelancer, most of my clients are quitting US SaaS and cloud offerings, albeit slowly.

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