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The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

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Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#421

Post by Quarrel »

Mathnerd314 wrote: post #334
Quarrel wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From TFA: > The Paperwork Reduction Act (PRA), which is set law, provides a “complete defense” against any penalty for failing to respond to any collection of information by a Federal agency that hasn’t been approved by the Office of Management and Budget (OMB), isn’t accompanied by a valid PRA notice, or doesn’t display a valid OMB Control Number. As the article works through, as a Federal Agency the TSA cannot just…

https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2025/11/20/2025-20... Well apparently Congress passed a law that said TSA could just demand money as long as they published a notice in the federal register.

as the PRA outlines (and the article goes through), publishing notice to the Federal Register does not suffice to get around the PRA, it is just a step in the process.

It is just "notice" of their intention to do it. They still have to do the other pieces, including getting their OMB control number.

Of course, as the article points out, all of this is pretty moot, if they're going to get the police to drag you away and not let you fly, irrespective of the position in law.

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#422

Post by parineum »

adastra22 wrote: post #349
PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They might be defended by their agency (though being "in the right" doesn't appear to be a pre-requisite for that anyway). But they would/could still be subject to lawsuit after lawsuit, which hardly suits the intended goal of government, does it?

Make the losing side pay attorney fees. (This is a general fix for a lot of issues in the legal system.)

That's a good way to stop poor people from trying to sue anyone with better access to lawyers.

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#423

Post by mft_ »

keeda wrote: post #358
caseysoftware wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So it was never about security at all then, was it? Never was. I flew every other week prior to covid and haven't once been through the scanners. For the first ~6 years, I opted out and got pat down over and over again. Then I realized I could even skip that. Now at the checkpoint, I stand at the metal detector. When they wave me to the scanner, I say "I can't raise my arms over my head." They wave me through the m…

> The TSA was NEVER about security. It was designed as a jobs program and make it look like we were doing something for security. To a great extent, it is security, even if it's mostly security theater, in the sense that it is security theater that people want . A large portion, maybe even the majority, of travelers simply won't feel safe without it. I've had and overheard multiple conversations at the airport where…

> A large portion, maybe even the majority, of travelers simply won't feel safe without it. I've had and overheard multiple conversations at the airport where somebody felt uncomfortable boarding a plane because they saw the screening agent asleep at the desk.

I’d hazard that this may be true now, but this feeling was created by the same “security measures” we’re discussing.

Anyway, such major population-wide measures shouldn’t be about stopping people being “uncomfortable” - they should be about minimising risk, or not at all. If you start imposing laws or other practices every time a group of people feel “uncomfortable”, the world will quickly grind to a halt.

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#424

Post by figassis »

keeda wrote: post #358
caseysoftware wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So it was never about security at all then, was it? Never was. I flew every other week prior to covid and haven't once been through the scanners. For the first ~6 years, I opted out and got pat down over and over again. Then I realized I could even skip that. Now at the checkpoint, I stand at the metal detector. When they wave me to the scanner, I say "I can't raise my arms over my head." They wave me through the m…

> The TSA was NEVER about security. It was designed as a jobs program and make it look like we were doing something for security. To a great extent, it is security, even if it's mostly security theater, in the sense that it is security theater that people want . A large portion, maybe even the majority, of travelers simply won't feel safe without it. I've had and overheard multiple conversations at the airport where…

It is mostly security, but not to residents of the country. Those can enforce their rights. In my country, I can argue with airport security, and win. Foreigners can’t, so they follow whatever rules. A few times when landing in the US, security was extremely rude, I think just looking for an excuse (things like throwing your laptop a few feet away, while staring at you, etc). You take it bc you’re not home, and the cost of ruining your vacation is not worth it.

What I’m trying to say is that , while a lot of it is theater, TSA may be more effective security against foreigners but you as a resident don’t notice because you can opt out. Try going to the UK and telling them you can’t raise your arms while being a US citizen.

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#425

Post by kmoser »

ryanscio wrote: post #170
caseysoftware wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So it was never about security at all then, was it? Never was. I flew every other week prior to covid and haven't once been through the scanners. For the first ~6 years, I opted out and got pat down over and over again. Then I realized I could even skip that. Now at the checkpoint, I stand at the metal detector. When they wave me to the scanner, I say "I can't raise my arms over my head." They wave me through the m…

Serious question: why? Most people I know who object to full-body millimeter-wave scanners either do so on pseudoscientific health claims, or “philosophical” anti-scanner objections that are structurally the same genre as sovereign-citizen or First-Amendment-auditor thinking.

Then why do they routinely send kids through the (non-invasive) metal detectors, while adults get sent through the millimeter-wave scanners?

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#426

Post by michaelsshaw »

OkayPhysicist wrote: post #121
Izikiel43 wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yes, because the federal government can't assume that everyone has an ID, since they don't issue a universal ID. I'm from a 3rd world country and we have a national id, the usa is weird in the strangest things.

It's a deep-seated cultural paranoia that the federal government is out to get us. Initially, the US tried to be a confederation like the EU or Canada, but it turned out that we needed slightly more federal power than that to stay as a unified country. But the tension between "loose coalition of independent states" and "unified government that grants some powers to the states" is a pretty fundamental theme throughout…

It isn't paranoia, it's an actual thing that they have and continue to do. They regularly terrorize the people of the United States. Ask your nearest nonwhite citizen, they will tell you.

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#427

Post by chias »

caseysoftware wrote: post #160
paxys wrote: post #23

It's hilarious how transparent a money grab this entire thing is. "You need to show a Real ID for security, otherwise how do we know you won't hijack the plane?" "Well I don't have a Real ID." "Ok then, give us $45 and you can go through." So it was never about security at all then, was it? And don't get me started with all the paid express security lanes. Because of course only poor people can weaponize shoes and la…

> So it was never about security at all then, was it? Never was. I flew every other week prior to covid and haven't once been through the scanners. For the first ~6 years, I opted out and got pat down over and over again. Then I realized I could even skip that. Now at the checkpoint, I stand at the metal detector. When they wave me to the scanner, I say "I can't raise my arms over my head." They wave me through the m…

This is brilliant. I continue to opt out and get the pat down every single time. Which is annoying because they deliberately make it slow and anxiety inducing with your bags are out of sight for quite a while.

I used to "punish" the rude or particularly slow ones by insisting on a private screening (since that involves two officers, and Is A Whole Thing) but I haven't gotten a rude one in a few years. But that also just makes it take even longer.

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#428

Post by notamario »

noduerme wrote: post #332
defrost wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In proper English usage it would only be a bigoted (obstinately or unreasonably attached to a belief, opinion, or faction, in particular prejudiced against or antagonistic towards a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group) check if it was unreasonable to suspect a Sikh of carrying a Kirpan. The Rehat Maryada would suggest that is in no way whatsoever an unreasonable suspicion. Sure, yo…

As a white guy who was caught accidentally carrying a large knife once through security, at the bottom of a carry-on backpack I'd had since high school, I don't think it's in any way essential to use racial or ethnic markers to figure out whether someone is taking something dangerous onto a plane. I didn't even know I was trying to bring a knife onto a plane at a regional airport. There's no reason to think that Sikh…

A Sikh is far more likely to be carrying a little sword than the average population.

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#429

Post by fc417fc802 »

root_axis wrote: post #306
paxys wrote: post #23

It's hilarious how transparent a money grab this entire thing is. "You need to show a Real ID for security, otherwise how do we know you won't hijack the plane?" "Well I don't have a Real ID." "Ok then, give us $45 and you can go through." So it was never about security at all then, was it? And don't get me started with all the paid express security lanes. Because of course only poor people can weaponize shoes and la…

It's not a money grab, it's a tactic to encourage compliance. This isn't evidence of a change in security posture, you've always been able to travel without a Real ID. They've been pushing Real ID for more than a decade, 90% of people have one already anyway, the remaining stragglers simply don't care because there have never been any consequences. Now TSA is offering an ultimatum. Pay $45 once to renew your ID or pa…

s/tactic to encourage compliance/blatant coercion/

FTFY

They've been trying to push this BS for over a decade but some of the states haven't been adopting it the way they'd like. The threats to ban travel without one were ultimately toothless as there would have been far too much backlash (and that would presumably be unconstitutional). This is what they figure they can get away with.

> the remaining stragglers simply don't care because there have never been any consequences

The default ID that my state issues has historically not been RealID compliant and I think that's a good thing. I have no interest in actively participating in the latest authoritarian overreach attempt.

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#430

Post by chias »

figassis wrote: post #424
keeda wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The TSA was NEVER about security. It was designed as a jobs program and make it look like we were doing something for security. To a great extent, it is security, even if it's mostly security theater, in the sense that it is security theater that people want . A large portion, maybe even the majority, of travelers simply won't feel safe without it. I've had and overheard multiple conversations at the airport where…

It is mostly security, but not to residents of the country. Those can enforce their rights. In my country, I can argue with airport security, and win. Foreigners can’t, so they follow whatever rules. A few times when landing in the US, security was extremely rude, I think just looking for an excuse (things like throwing your laptop a few feet away, while staring at you, etc). You take it bc you’re not home, and the c…

I tried to opt out in the UK last time I was there a few years ago. The agent looked at me, confused, and said "so... you don't want to get on the plane?". She told me the the UK didn't allow opt-outs.

This was the only time I've gone through the machine since they were introduced.

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