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Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

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Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#421

Post by selimthegrim »

Kirby64 wrote: post #279
mdavid626 wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which EV can go 600 miles with one charge, or with so little charging? How much does that car cost? Are you assuming, that every charger on the way is 200kW?

Lucid Grand Touring can do it in one charge (that lasts ~45 minutes). Expensive, but it could do it. I did Shreveport, LA to Pesos, TX as an example. If you're OK with 2 charging stops, an Ioniq 6 or a Tesla Model 3 will work just fine. Also, charging speed is irrelevant to how many stops you need. Most chargers are >150kW these days, though. If you truly want to minimize charging stops, you'd be better served chargi…

Pecos?

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#422

Post by structural »

Workaccount2 wrote: post #154
mdavid626 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree that EV-s are held back by misconceptions. More their price and range.

A 600 mile trip can (theoretically) be done with 1 charge, because you leave home with full range, and arrive with 0 charge (and fill up overnight). That one charge is done while eating dinner, or spaced out in increments over the course of the trip , stops which you would take anyway. I know few people who want to bang out 10 hours without stopping for at least 1-2 hours over the course of the trip. And those who do…

My 10hr drives usually have 2 stops at 30mins-1hr each, for food. Unfortunately, stopping at a restaurant for a meal doesn't leave the vehicle in a location that has a charger, for the most part. Other parts of the world may differ, but the infrastructure to "just spend 15 minutes charging" whenever you want is not there.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#423

Post by palmotea »

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #416
palmotea wrote: post #412

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How about I just conclude that while pulling a boat or hauling mulch are completely OK things to want a vehicle for (*), one does not need a F150 with a front end that reaches my chest and has gas mileage to prove it. Did you miss like the entire first half of the quoted passage? Because it kinda sounds like you're judging the people buying the trucks. One buys from the options the market gives them, and the market…

No, actually, I did not. But I thought that the part that I requoted stood in a weird opposition to it ...

> No, actually, I did not. But I thought that the part that I requoted stood in a weird opposition to it ...

Which kind of makes sense, because it's Gluesenkamp-Perez critiquing a book she opposes.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#424

Post by rootusrootus »

nikcub wrote: post #61
mdavid626 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree that EV-s are held back by misconceptions. More their price and range.

Resale value is starting to ward some people off. You can buy 1-2 year old used Teslas and BYD's in Australia for ~30% below retail. Meanwhile Toyota hybrids not just retain their value but there have been moments where used RAV4's are listed above retail because the waitlist for new was so long.

Tesla is a special case because they manipulate their pricing on a monthly, sometimes daily basis, and in the past they've changed the price quite significantly. In the US, the tax credits also really screw with the market dynamics. Lots of people think the car depreciates really quickly because they don't realize the original buyer didn't pay MSRP. I paid $20K under MSRP for my Lightning and in the just over a year I've owned it, the value has dropped about 7-8K. Pretty normal for the first year of a new vehicle.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#425

Post by Kirby64 »

Workaccount2 wrote: post #322
mdavid626 wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which EV can go 600 miles with one charge, or with so little charging? How much does that car cost? Are you assuming, that every charger on the way is 200kW?

You can get Model 3 LR that will do it for $20k used. Like everyone else, you are thinking in "gas car" trying to resolve an electric car problem. You start every trip in an EV with full range (unplug from home base charger). You drive 300 miles. You full recharge. You drive another 300 miles. You plug-in and go to sleep. 600 miles. One charge. $20k EV.

A used Model 3 LR cannot do 300 miles of highway driving in almost any condition. Even a brand new one cannot do that. The only way you get 300mi of driving out of a Model 3 is if you drive at 35mph or something, which would be wildly impractical for any road trip situation.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#426

Post by rootusrootus »

_ea1k wrote: post #120
mdavid626 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree that EV-s are held back by misconceptions. More their price and range.

Exactly, price is a huge problem. IIRC, the average selling price of F-150 is ~50k. The extended range Lightning tended to be $60k and up. Sure, it had AWD, but lots of people didn't need that. The Cybertruck is even more expensive. Both had huge preorders when they were announced at ~50k.

My 2024 Lightning Flash was just under 51K, FWIW. Extended range, plenty of toys, definitely not the base model.

I admit I was also under the impression they were expensive, and I was shopping for a Powerboost F150 first, until someone told me that MSRP was a lie.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#427

Post by doublesocket »

m463 wrote: post #405
jahsome wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who's just been trying to buy a crappy used truck to haul some crap to the dump a couple times a year, you're absolutely spot on. I even live in the southwest US where trucks make up a considerable portion of vehicles on the road. Crappy used trucks simply aren't up for sale. And even the rare listing I do come across, the asking price is ridiculously inflated.

I was looking for the same thing and a friend gave me some advice. Get an SUV with a trailer hitch. worked out great. Maybe better than a pickup. For example - taking mountain bikes somewhere to ride - you can put them in the back, go ride, and leave them there while you go eat without someone stealing them. You can even load them the night before. dirty stuff can use a trailer (I've never needed one) and suv carries…

Never understood why the yanks don't like vans? Pickups are much less popular here in the UK, many more people use vans. A crew cab van with removable seats is infinitely more flexible than a pickup, other than long stuff which you chuck on a roof rack.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#428

Post by Kirby64 »

selimthegrim wrote: post #421
Kirby64 wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lucid Grand Touring can do it in one charge (that lasts ~45 minutes). Expensive, but it could do it. I did Shreveport, LA to Pesos, TX as an example. If you're OK with 2 charging stops, an Ioniq 6 or a Tesla Model 3 will work just fine. Also, charging speed is irrelevant to how many stops you need. Most chargers are >150kW these days, though. If you truly want to minimize charging stops, you'd be better served chargi…

Pecos?

I picked Shreveport, LA as a starting location and went west towards El Paso until I found a city that was slightly over 600 miles of distance. The cities are mostly irrelevant unless you pick something that is exceptionally hilly such as routes through mountain ranges or something.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#429

Post by rootusrootus »

Kirby64 wrote: post #425
Workaccount2 wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can get Model 3 LR that will do it for $20k used. Like everyone else, you are thinking in "gas car" trying to resolve an electric car problem. You start every trip in an EV with full range (unplug from home base charger). You drive 300 miles. You full recharge. You drive another 300 miles. You plug-in and go to sleep. 600 miles. One charge. $20k EV.

A used Model 3 LR cannot do 300 miles of highway driving in almost any condition. Even a brand new one cannot do that. The only way you get 300mi of driving out of a Model 3 is if you drive at 35mph or something, which would be wildly impractical for any road trip situation.

You'd do a good bit better at 35. A realistic range at 65-70mph would be about 250-260.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#430

Post by rootusrootus »

mdavid626 wrote: post #188
ceejayoz wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They have worse prices (higher) Does this factor in cost of ownership? Gas, oil changes, less complexity? > worse range (lower, particularly for towing) Towing reduces a gas powered car’s range, too.

(Towing) You can fill it up in 5 min. Not true for EV.

Hell, ain't true for any gas pickup I've owned, either. Big tanks, and often temperamental bastards that have to be babysat and won't take fuel at full pump speed in any case.

Most road trip stops, according to the AAA, are 15 minutes anyway. Only on the Internet does everyone take 5 minutes to refuel.

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