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The future of software development is software developers

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Re: The future of software development is software developers

#421

Post by Gud »

lelele wrote: post #400
Gud wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same. I started coding before hitting puberty, and Im well into my 30s. If you know the problem space well, you can let LLMs(I use Claude and ChatGPT) flesh it out.

> I use Claude and ChatGPT Both for code? For me, it's Claude only for code. ChatGPT is for general questions.

Yes, I use them in tandem. Generally Claude for coding and ChatGPT when I run out of tokens in Claude.

I also use ChatGPT to summarise my project. I ask it to generate mark down and PDFs, explaining the core functionality.

Re: The future of software development is software developers

#422

Post by threethirtytwo »

elktown wrote: post #344
dent9 wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are wrong. People like yourself will likely be smart enough to stay well employed into the future. It's the folks who are arguing with you trying to say that AI is useless who will quickly lose their jobs. And they'll be all shocked Pikachu face when they get a pink slip while their role gets reassigned to an AI agent

> It's the folks who are arguing with you trying to say that AI is useless who will quickly lose their jobs. Why is it that in every hype there are always the guys like you that want to punish the non-believers? It's not enough to be potentially proven correct, your anger requires the demise of the heretics. It was the same story for cryptocurrencies.

Not too dissimilar to you. I wrote long rebuttals to you points and you just descended into put downs, stalking and false accusations. You essentially told me to fuck off from all of HN in one of your posts.

So it’s not like your anger is any better.

Re: The future of software development is software developers

#423

Post by andrekandre »

kvemkon wrote: post #263
constantcrying wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>But that's exactly the promise of LLMs by the hypepeople behind it. I do not know and do not care what the "hypepeople" say. I can tell you that, by pure logic alone, LLMs will be superior at simple and routine tasks sooner, which means they will compete with outsourced labor first. LLMs need to be measured against their competition and their competition right now is outsourced labor. If an LLM can outperform an off…

> If an LLM can outperform an offshore team at a fraction of the cost,.. And "a few moments later" happens the same as with those "cost effective" clouds. [1] https://www.heise.de/en/news/IDC-Many-companies-want-partly-... [2] https://www.idc.com/resource-center/blog/storm-clouds-ahead-... (original)

in the end, it all comes down to roi; if spending x dollars a month brings in an additional 5x revenue then its gonna be worth?

then again, i have some suspicion that alot of consumer-focused end products using llms in the backend (hello chatbots) expecting big returns for all those tokens spent may have some bad news coming... if the bubble starts popping i'm guessing it starts there...

Re: The future of software development is software developers

#425

Post by threethirtytwo »

hansmayer wrote: post #403
elktown wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's the folks who are arguing with you trying to say that AI is useless who will quickly lose their jobs. Why is it that in every hype there are always the guys like you that want to punish the non-believers? It's not enough to be potentially proven correct, your anger requires the demise of the heretics. It was the same story for cryptocurrencies.

He/she is probably one of those poor souls working for an AI-wrapper-startup who received a ton of compensation in "equity", which will be worth nothing when their founders get acquihired, Windsurf style ;) But until then, they get to threaten us all with the impending doom, because hey, they are looking into the eye of the storm, writing Very Complex Queries against the AI API or whatever...

Isn’t this the same type of emotional response he’s getting accused for? You’re speculating that he will be “punished” just as he speculated for you.

There’s emotions on both sides and the goal is to call it out, throw it to the side and cut through into the substance. The attitude should be: Which one of us is actually right? Rather than: I’m right and you’re a fucking idiot attitude I see everywhere.

Re: The future of software development is software developers

#426

Post by robofanatic »

mohsen1 wrote: post #3

I really really want this to be true. I want to be relevant. I don’t know what to do if all those predictions are true and there is no need (or very little need) for programmers anymore. But something tells me “this time is different” is different this time for real. Coding AIs design software better than me, review code better than me, find hard-to-find bugs better than me, plan long-running projects better than me,…

>I really really want this to be true. I want to be relevant

Think of yourself as a chef and LLMs as ready to eat meals or a recipe app. Can ready to eat meals OR recipe apps put a chef out of business?

Re: The future of software development is software developers

#427

Post by jimbo808 »

alexwhb wrote: post #363
jimbo808 wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but I can point to many examples in my own work where using Codex has saved me easily a week or more Care to share a few of these examples?

Sure thing. I work on a few projects for my company. The main one is an Android and iOS audiobook-media-player app. I had to update the Android side to use the Google Media3 library instead of the legacy ExoPlayer library. In a typical app this would be pretty straightforward, but we’ve mixed in a lot of custom elements that made the transition quite challenging. I actually attempted it manually back in the day and p…

> I can point to many examples

> ...easily a week or more

Got any examples worth "easily a week or more?"

Re: The future of software development is software developers

#428

Post by andrekandre »

newsoftheday wrote: post #382
alexwhb wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure thing. I work on a few projects for my company. The main one is an Android and iOS audiobook-media-player app. I had to update the Android side to use the Google Media3 library instead of the legacy ExoPlayer library. In a typical app this would be pretty straightforward, but we’ve mixed in a lot of custom elements that made the transition quite challenging. I actually attempted it manually back in the day and p…

> strip out any functions that weren’t being used anymore—something like 300-plus functions. Doing that by hand would easily have taken a day or more Any decent IDE can do that refactoring instantly. > I could go on Clearly.

  > Any decent IDE can do that refactoring instantly.
its an interesting point that got me thinking: at what point does all of this just boil down to dev ux/ide features, and does this need to run on the server (as economic rents) vs just locally?

Re: The future of software development is software developers

#429

Post by embedding-shape »

throw4847285 wrote: post #384
embedding-shape wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not about being able to do more faster, but be able to faster get help doing what you wanted to do. For example, before LLMs, if I wanted to figure out how to do something with a specific analog synth I basically spent time reading manuals and browsing internet forums, piecing together whatever I could find into something actionable, sometimes slightly wrong, but at least in the right direction. Nowadays, I fire…

But looking up information via an LLM is an entirely different category of usage. I have no problem with that (well, much less of a problem).

The point is "things that used to take me hours, can now be done by a magic computer program in the background, while I do other things". It's applicable for small unix utilities I create to make my development UX better, it's applicable for when I'm doing music production and it's applicable in a wide-range of tasks both professionally and for my hobbies.

It saves me from stuff I find boring yet necessary, so I can focus more on the fun stuff. I guess this was the overall point I was trying to make in this comment-chain.

Re: The future of software development is software developers

#430

Post by threethirtytwo »

afishhh wrote: post #298
threethirtytwo wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right I’m a bot made to promote AI like half the people on this thread. I don’t know if you noticed a difference from other hype cycles but other ones were speculative. This one is also speculative but the greater divide is that the literal on the ground usefulness of AI is ALREADY going to change the world. The speculation is that the AI will get better and will no longer need hand holding.

I'm having a lot of trouble understanding what you're trying to convey. You say there's a difference from previous "speculation" but also that it's still speculation. Then you go on to write "ALREADY going to" which is future tense (speculation), even clarifying what the speculation is. Is this sarcasm, ragebait, or a serious argument?

Serious.

So let me explain it more clearly. AI as it is now is already changing the game. It will reduce the demand of swes across every company as an eventuality if we hold technological progress fixed. There is no speculation here. This comes from on the ground evidence from what I see day to day and what I do and my experience pair programming things from scratch with AI.

The speculation is this: if we follow the trendlines of AI improvement for the past decade and a half, the projection of past improvement indicates AI will only get better and better. It’s a reasonable speculation, but it is nonetheless speculative. I wouldn’t bet my life on continuous improvement of AI to the point of AGI but it’s now more than ever before a speculation that is not unrealistic.

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