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I'm returning my Framework 16

yorickpeterse.com

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Re: I'm returning my Framework 16

#421

Post by jorvi »

nachopa wrote: post #403
goku12 wrote: post #386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a major clarification is in order here. I'm not talking about just the framework here. If anything, the problems with framework is the direct result of the absolutely stupid industry-wide product design culture and market tastes. You can see all the major open-ish hardware designers grappling with similar issues - pinephone, System76, Librem... I will explain later why it is so. But here is the point - we nee…

>about a couple of decades ago, there would have been immediate and sharp backlash if any hardware manufacturer pulled the tricks that they do today - soldered-on RAM modules, thermoplastic glue instead of screws, riveted keyboards, irreplaceable ICs... That's when this trend started, with Apple's Macbook Pro leading the way, winding up one of the best-selling consumer laptop brands by targeting incoming college fres…

I always enjoy how Thinkpad bros have been badmouthing MacBooks for two decades, when those have had the best battery life, screen, hinge, case, bluetooth, fan noise and other amenities during all of that time. They were the first to have WiFi.

Apple figured out pretty soon that a laptop doesn't need to be a dragster or M1 Abrams, it needs to be a Volvo.

Re: I'm returning my Framework 16

#422

Post by pdimitar »

johnnyanmac wrote: post #367
osigurdson wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it artificial though, really? You buy whatever is available now and it eventually becomes obsolete and you have to buy a new one. Maybe there is some kind of multi vendor collusion going on but it doesn't seem that likely. Where I think repairability really makes sense is in things that don't materially improve and should last 30 years (e.g. appliances).

If there's an ability to upgrade my GPU 3 years in but I can't, then yes. It's artificial. We just got way too comfortable with the mentality of throwing out everything and getting new cheap tech overtime. I guess the one thing AI is doing that's good for this scene will be to make people value what they have more.

Who is "we"?

Re: I'm returning my Framework 16

#423

Post by kinow »

I am quite happy with my AMD 13 laptop. It replaced my Thinkpad T530 after its ~10 years of service. So far, nearly one year after buying it, everything works well. Ubuntu, Docker containers, clion+pycharm, sometimes Blender and other apps. Plus several tabs on Firefox. Camera and audio are better than my old thinkpad, so i have nothing to complain about yet.

There were issues like configuring Linux (extra monitor, logitech mouse, tablet, some software) but I found everything on Framework forums or googling a bit.

Re: I'm returning my Framework 16

#424

Post by nathias »

I went for a similar upgrade from X1 Carbon. I don't undestand why OP would compare the weight of a 16 to carbon which is closer to framework 13 (which I bought).

For me on Arch it's working great and has none of the issues he mentions, its the best laptop I ever owned. I bought one because the Carbon started decomposing fairly quickly (headphone jack, usb c port, keys) and think the modularity is a really great feature.

Re: I'm returning my Framework 16

#425

Post by Moldoteck »

jimmaswell wrote: post #283
justin66 wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think ultimately what frustrates me is that people don’t consider the ability to repair or upgrade your machine part of a “premium” experience, but that’s is just something I have to accept. I think it is unfortunate that our consumerist culture places so little value on it though. Buying one of the original Frameworks and a Macbook Air at roughly the same time made me realize how little I actually care about upg…

Some people around me prolesytize these modern Macbooks endlessly but I don't quite get it. I've tried them but I still love my Framework 16 to bits and I'd take it any day of the week. The Macbooks are great machines, and one thing I can say in their favor is the battery life is phenomenal, but I prefer my Framework's aesthetics and feel - it feels more like I'm holding something I've worked on and made my own vs ju…

First time I read that the trackpad of Framework is 'just as good' as in macbooks

Re: I'm returning my Framework 16

#426

Post by askonomm »

I have a Framework 16, and as for it being a Linux machine I couldn't be happier with it. I still daily drive my MacBook Pro 16 instead, because it's just a more polished, more performant (and better battery life) machine, but still, I also really like my Framework 16. I eagerly await the time when Linux desktops reach the level of polish I'd like to have, and I feel like that isn't that far away anymore.

Re: I'm returning my Framework 16

#427

Post by TazeTSchnitzel »

mindcrash wrote: post #388

People really should stop pretending that you're getting a Macbook out of a Framework. You're not. You're getting a PC laptop with all the advantages of a self-build PC desktop. When you compare apples to apples (lol) - PCs to PCs - the current gen higher end Framework 13 and 16 are beasts. They contain the fastest mobile AMD chips on the market today, the Ryzen AI HX 370 aka "Strix Point". The only thing faster than…

The Framework Laptop 16 has worse performance than other laptops that have the same chips, due to thermal and power constraints. Upgrading to the fastest option Framework sells might not have much value when the power budget for it is so low.

Re: I'm returning my Framework 16

#428

Post by Moldoteck »

contingencies wrote: post #93
kec wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or you could just buy a MacBook Air for like $900 (or one of the windows snapdragon machines, but it you care about avoiding Intel I’m assuming you want Linux and doubt the support is as good as asahi on Macs)

Macbook air = small keyboard, small screen, limited battery, all parts expensive to service, etc. Try hacking a Mac Mini instead: https://github.com/vk2diy/hackbook-m4-mini

battery is good even on m1 air and better on 15' airs which have bigger keyboard/battery

Re: I'm returning my Framework 16

#429

Post by winrid »

jeffbee wrote: post #69
ndiddy wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of computers with OLED displays use PWM for the low brightness levels, and he seems like the type of person who would be sensitive to that sort of thing.

PWM is the only useful way to drive an LED and the people who deny this are, to me, hilarious. In fact for the author's stated use case of low light conditions PWM really is the only way to do it without wrecking accuracy (and efficiency).

My no PWM laptops look fine to me for watching movies. Sure, less efficient. But if I can't look at it for more than 30 seconds without my eyes burning then what's the point?

Re: I'm returning my Framework 16

#430

Post by rafaelmn »

comte7092 wrote: post #8

I appreciate the authors thoughtful review here, but I can’t help but be frustrated by the constant lack of understanding of the core value proposition of framework both in this post and in many comments here on hn. Frequently the author brings up that for 2,000 euros they expect a premium experience, but no where is there an evaluation of the value granted by upgradability and repeatability of the machine, and only…

What value proposition exactly ? If you're comparing to similar build quality laptops you're looking at price for two devices vs one with HW upgrades. And you can't even compare it to a premium device.

And worst of all you can only upgrade to what they have available - you can't get a strix halo inside of that thing - this is the only scenario that would make sense for me - enthusiast level hardware support.

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