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Children with cancer scammed out of millions fundraised for their treatment

bbc.com

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Re: Children with cancer scammed out of millions fundraised for their treatment

#421

Post by marcusb »

philipallstar wrote: post #403
marcusb wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the kid in the article who got $27k raised in his name for cancer treatment, received $0 in cancer treatment from those funds, and subsequently died of cancer definitely got scammed.

If I come up to you and show you a photo of an elephant and keep the $100 you gave me to help it, did you get scammed, or did the elephant?

False equivalence. In your straw man, the elephant isn't misled into believing that by posing for a photo it could be "helped," nor is it possible to communicate such an idea to an elephant. In the story, money was raised for the boy's cancer treatment, and that money was improperly withheld, denying him the treatment those funds could have provided. He was harmed by that, and by being misled into thinking he could get treatment by appearing in the video, he was scammed. Lying to the family and stating the funds weren't raised is also scamming them.

But, of course, you know that, but you would rather dig and (try to) play semantic games than admit you are wrong. Do better.

Re: Children with cancer scammed out of millions fundraised for their treatment

#423

Post by jessepasley »

juliusceasar wrote: post #393
nafizh wrote: post #362

The BBC has increasingly been anti-semitic. First, the baseless allegations of starving and murdering children in Gaza and now this. Troubling times.

So, exposing jew criminals is anti-semitic?

Always has been ;)

Re: Children with cancer scammed out of millions fundraised for their treatment

#424

Post by almosthere »

jessepasley wrote: post #422
almosthere wrote: post #396

[flagged]

"Why do you care about genocide in Gaza when you don't care anything about the Uyghurs in Xinjiang?" This tactic is just so tiresome and people aren't falling for it.

I didn't say anything about genocide in Gaza or the Uyghurs in Xinjiang... What are you on?

When people are unable to engage with an argument this is what they do.

Re: Children with cancer scammed out of millions fundraised for their treatment

#425

Post by overfeed »

bko wrote: post #405
Retric wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re confusing ideology with the way the world actually operates. The general public doesn’t have enough information to make informed decisions when it comes to healthcare. This alone completely removes the usual market forces from providing any benefit when it comes to healthcare. Cancer treatments don’t inherently cost that much money, the systems to ensure people are actually getting useful treatments are expens…

> The general public doesn’t have enough information to make informed decisions when it comes to healthcare. This alone completely removes the usual market forces from providing any benefit when it comes to healthcare. Why is it always "the general public" and not "I". Do you have enough information about decisions? Can I take away some of your rights? No, of course not. Everyone else is dumb except me. I'm sorry but…

> I'm sorry but I refuse to believe some unelected, anonymous bureaucrat has my best interests in mind or can even know me anything about me such that I want to allow them to make health decisions for me.

I'm sorry to tell you that this is, but unelected bureaucrats are constantly making health decisions on your behalf. You may not want government bureaucrats, but bureaucrats already work in your employer's HR department, deciding on which insurer to partner with, and with what benefits. They are at your insurance company, doctors office, and hospital administration, negotiating and deciding which procedures and drugs are available to you without ever asking for your opinion. Bureaucrats you didn't vote for infest drug company's research and finance offices, determining the availability and cost of your present and future care. None of these even pretend to act in your interests.

I'd rather have some government bureaucrat preside over all the other predatory bureaucrats. I sure as hell wouldn't be make well-informed decisions in the ER, or after getting a cancer diagnosis. Further, it is impossible to compare provider quality and final costs for elective, cosmetic procedures when I'm under no time pressure or stress.

Re: Children with cancer scammed out of millions fundraised for their treatment

#426

Post by jgeada »

bko wrote: post #409
jgeada wrote: post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because when you're dying you have no bargaining position. You can't just wait it out. And you're just a single client, whether you personally die or not does not meaningfully change their bottom line. So it is a highly asymmetric bargaining situation where all the incentives are poorly aligned. Of course it is exploitative.

Okay, you have no bargaining decision when you have N providers, so we should get rid of all providers with a single provider because only then you'll be in better bargaining position. And now your death will have a meaningful change to the career bureaucrat or politician that made the decision that led to your death. Because power of an individual vote is much more powerful than the power to take your business elsew…

All empirical evidence shows that single payer systems work better, producing far better outcomes at lower cost, than the US system. In fact, so much better that a single payer system is what Congress has chosen for itself!

But seems some prefer to believe a theoretical argument with no evidence to back it up.

“The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.”

Re: Children with cancer scammed out of millions fundraised for their treatment

#427

Post by jsmith99 »

colinb wrote: post #311
Ozzie_osman wrote: post #85

It's worth noting that if the suspect is in Israel, and he nerds to be tried in the US it might be an uphill battle trying to get him extradited. https://jacobin.com/2023/02/israel-law-of-return-extradition...

It definitely seems uphill but not infinitely so. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-55795075.amp Though that case, returning an alleged, now convicted child rapist took decades. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malka_Leifer_affair As a not-Israeli Jew the reluctance of the Israeli government to send alleged criminals for trial overseas doesn’t make me happy, but I also remember that there are some reasons for t…

Unfortunately many countries have blanket extradition bans. US is one of the worst - it caused a lot of tension in the past when they wouldn't extradite IRA bombers but got UK to agree to extradite anyone US wanted.

Re: Children with cancer scammed out of millions fundraised for their treatment

#429

Post by bko »

TehCorwiz wrote: post #415
bko wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The general public doesn’t have enough information to make informed decisions when it comes to healthcare. This alone completely removes the usual market forces from providing any benefit when it comes to healthcare. Why is it always "the general public" and not "I". Do you have enough information about decisions? Can I take away some of your rights? No, of course not. Everyone else is dumb except me. I'm sorry but…

The whole "anonymous bureaucrat" shtick doesn't land anymore. The purpose of having long-term non-political staff is so that operations don't change on a whim when some rogue director comes in and wants a second Ferrari. The reason government spends more AND is paradoxically more efficient is because most of the work of those bureaucrats is tracking, reporting, and reconciliation. That's the whole deal. Congress pass…

Can you name someone that is a long-term non-political person that is making these decisions?

I have trouble believing empowering people who have no risk of losing their job and no one knows they exist is the best model for making decisions for other people.

Re: Children with cancer scammed out of millions fundraised for their treatment

#430

Post by throwaway198846 »

jack_tripper wrote: post #368
throwaway198846 wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

[flagged]

I literally conceded that "As for the rest of them they need to be considered" (for extradition). Yes I think this conversation is at end of usefullness. Israel has good reasons form their perspective to why they give citizenship easily and pretty much all countries don't give up their citizens without good cause (I read about a case where France didn't want to extradite to Israel because they aren't part of the EU so it wasn't legal. At the end France court sentenced them, so Israel should do the same).
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