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Roomba maker goes bankrupt, Chinese owner emerges

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Re: Roomba maker goes bankrupt, Chinese owner emerges

#421
post #254

According to the Financial Times, Roomba has sold more than 40 million robotic devices, most of them robotic vacuum cleaners.[a] Many of those vacuum cleaners have cameras, can move around on their own, and are connected to the Internet. If they're taken offline, they stop working. Many have microphones too. The new Chinese owner will get control of a network of tens of millions Internet-connected, autonomously mobil…

I don't think there are tens of millions still in use.

Unless you design your house and buy your furnitures taking these roomba into account, they get stuck nearly every where or at the first sock left on the ground by someone in your household. They have a number of wearable most owner will not even want to replace and will start being inefficient rather quickly. Add to that some battery wear and I don't think there is a lot of +5y old devices in the wild.

I and most people I know went back to regular vacuum cleaners. The thing is, those robots really don't solve a real problem as vacuuming and mopping are the easiest and quickest job when it comes to cleaning the house. Dusting all the furnitures + objects on top of them and cleaning the bathroom and toilets correctly are both much more time consuming and annoying jobs.

Re: Roomba maker goes bankrupt, Chinese owner emerges

#422
post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our household (and I suspect many with us) bought a Roomba specifically to not give the Chinese government a roving camera in our home. Ouch!

Since this can be a significant security issue for the state, why doesn't the government sponsor a security audit of the software. Does it upload the data or everything is done on the device? (Also, will have to keep up with the updates)

Better yet, why not pick a security auditor and have the bidder pay for it, as a condition for approval?

Re: Roomba maker goes bankrupt, Chinese owner emerges

#423

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do American companies have to rely on artificial protections like IP in order to compete? Don't forget it's only "stealing" if you're culturally inclined to see IP as actual property, whereas in China the idea has long been that ideas are common good, even predating Marxism.

> artificial protections Everything is an artificial protection by your standard. Laws are written for a reason. IP is an incentive to develop the IP in the first place. Why would anyone sink huge amounts of money into developing IP if a competitor can just wait and then take it for itself. And if its such a good idea, why hasn't China been a superpower for so long? America and Europe have been creating and innovatin…

> Everything is an artificial protection by your standard. Laws are written for a reason.

No it isn't and this comes across as a straw man. Competing on price, build quality, distribution, aesthetic, service support etc etc are all very real.

> Why would anyone sink huge amounts of money into developing IP if a competitor can just wait and then take it for itself.

How/why did we ever develop anything prior to 1710? And we can add first movers advantage to the list of "real" protections, as well as prestige, marketing etc.

> And if its such a good idea, why hasn't China been a superpower for so long?

Define superpower here? It seems to me that Western powers became global powers first because of colonialism, which A) was driven by materials not by IP, and B) caused direct harm to China.

> China has risen by replicating the West's technology and techniques. Where would China right now be without the West?

Was China in a bad position before the Europeans arrived? Since the Opium Wars they've been forced to play along or risk being wiped out completely. Where could they be without the west indeed.

> Suddenly China is going excel at something at something they haven't done?

Haven't they? It seems that they are very competitive for a host of practical manufacturing reasons that could have been implemented elsewhere if there had been a will or long term vision.

> Japan is instructive because they rose economically in a similar fashion.

Japan was completely neutered and propped up by the US for half a century while they "recovered." It's not a comparable situation.

> there is strong evidence that freedom and a cosmopolitan society promotes innovation.

Is there? Did Britain become a superpower because of its free and cosmopolitan society? Is being a superpower our end goal?

> Which system is better isn't hard to spot. The naivete of some here is incredible.

This isn't an argument at all, just an ad hominem not in keeping with site guidelines. I'm happy to discuss but strawmen and as hominems are very off-putting.

Re: Roomba maker goes bankrupt, Chinese owner emerges

#424
post #289
post #254

According to the Financial Times, Roomba has sold more than 40 million robotic devices, most of them robotic vacuum cleaners.[a] Many of those vacuum cleaners have cameras, can move around on their own, and are connected to the Internet. If they're taken offline, they stop working. Many have microphones too. The new Chinese owner will get control of a network of tens of millions Internet-connected, autonomously mobil…

Our household (and I suspect many with us) bought a Roomba specifically to not give the Chinese government a roving camera in our home. Ouch!

Why do you think they want to see the inside of your house, and what do you think they'd be able to do with the information?

Re: Roomba maker goes bankrupt, Chinese owner emerges

#425
post #365

I'm all for antitrust, but it's a shame the Amazon acquisition was blocked.[0] iRobot was in a distressed state then, and immediately laid of 1/3 of staff when the deal fell through. I knew a survivor of that mess. Now this. 0: https://www.theverge.com/2024/1/29/24034201/amazon-irobot-ac... 0: https://archive.is/rBn7z

Elizabeth Warren is proud of blocking this deal:

https://www.wsj.com/opinion/amazon-irobot-deal-collapse-room...

Re: Roomba maker goes bankrupt, Chinese owner emerges

#426

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet china's economy where IP isn't respected seems to contradict your point. Why doesn't that counterexample make you change your mind on this?

You’re asking why Chinese companies aren’t stealing from each other? How do you know they’re not? Nothing happens in China without State approval so maybe the penalties for encroaching on a State backed entity are quite severe?

He's saying the opposite:

1. Chinese companies steal IP from each other all the time.

2. The Chinese economy is growing quickly and Chinese companies are out-innovating their US competitors in many segments.

And the question then is: do strong IP protections actually benefit innovation? Because China seems to be a counterexample.

Re: Roomba maker goes bankrupt, Chinese owner emerges

#427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Definitely not all live and functioning. In fact I suspect less than 10m are actively used. It is a company that has been around for years and it has run into sales issues that last few years with competition and their products have tech product lifespans of around 3 years I suspect.

Personally, I have a Roomba I bought in Jan 2019 that's still doing just fine (So 7 years now). Most of the parts are pretty easily replaced (genuinely pleasant surprise, as an aside) and the company stocked most replacement parts for a long time - I just checked again and I can still get parts for my model (I-series) incl batteries, wheels, brushes, filters, etc. Which is less than it used to be, but still enough to…

> Most of the parts are pretty easily replaced (genuinely pleasant surprise, as an aside) and the company stocked most replacement parts for a long time - I just checked again and I can still get parts for my model (I-series) incl batteries, wheels, brushes, filters, etc. Which is less than it used to be, but still enough to keep mine rolling around for another 3ish years without any likely problems.

I've never owned or really used a different brand than roomba (I've joked that I've owned 4 roombas, but never purchased a single one...) but I fully agree that the modular nature of their parts replacement is a super welcome thing. The fact that the electrical contacts are all just sprung into each other, and each component is basically designed for near-minimal replacement overlap (not replacing things that are not broken) is something that I would LOVE to be implemented in more things. I always assumed that it was this 'forward thinking' design that a) Likely added a bit to the cost of the brand b) Likely didn't assist with future sales from breakages, etc.

Out of the 4 I've acquired over the years, one has been stripped of parts and discarded. One is relatively in that process, and the other 2 are happily (?) doing the different areas of my house. A few amazon batteries later (Which I originally only charge when I am home and able to check on them, then place faith in 'not burning down the house') and everything is hunky doory.

Also, they have been around so long, there are a boatload of 3d printed replacement parts floating around that can be quite useful if one has a 3d printer.

I've always held them in pretty high regard for repairable tech.

Re: Roomba maker goes bankrupt, Chinese owner emerges

#428
post #415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not? Unless you are a Chinese citizen, it arguably makes more sense to grant access to the Chinese government rather than the US government. The PRC generally shows little interest in non-citizens while the US government frequently goes after people beyond its borders (e.g. Meng Wanzhou, Changpeng Zhao, Sam Bankman-Fried, Julian Assange, Kim Dotcom, etc.).

The general thing about state actors is that they have every incentive to have a dossier of compromising information on every foreign national regardless of current relevance, for potential use in the future. You could, for instance, someday be in a position where you have privileged access to data that becomes relevant to them, and thus your history becomes useful.

[deleted]

Re: Roomba maker goes bankrupt, Chinese owner emerges

#429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me it's so weird nobody makes a thing you can trust. I would happily overpay 3-4x for the good vacuum without the cloud and the need to do some hacking with valetudo, with an official service and support for the device. Yet nobody is willing to take the money. They'd rather go bankrupt..

> Yet nobody is willing to take the money. It’s weird that you have identified this business opportunity with such confidence, but you are also unwilling to take the money.

As it is so easy to start a mass production of vacuum cleaners, yes. Give me a week in my garage. TBH I have zero idea where I should go to start a business of such scale even if I have a 100% zero-risk shot which is never the case. Not everybody has an MBA, some of us just code stuff.

Re: Roomba maker goes bankrupt, Chinese owner emerges

#430

If you've used any non-iRobot vacuum alternatives in the last 5 years and ever owned a Roomba in the past there should be nothing surprising about this headline. It's shocking to me how good Roborock mop-vacuums are for example, Eufy vacuums are nice as well. They still run into unavoidable issues, but they're: much quieter even at their highest setting; show you how they map out the space; allow you to easily custom…

I have a second-hand "dumb Eufy" and it's great. No cameras, no microphone, no Wi-Fi, no app, no calling home to mommy. It just spins, sucks and bangs (gently) around my house and I don't get mad when it gets stuck. It cleans under things I can't reach easily with a vacuum, and it cost me almost nothing.

Yea same here, it’s great
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