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Is America's jobs market nearing a cliff?

economist.com

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Re: Is America's jobs market nearing a cliff?

#421

Post by lan321 »

godelski wrote: post #196
kortilla wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Software developer salaries went up significantly after 2016 and it was a super hot market for developers in 2020. So whatever you saw wasn’t a good indicator.

It's easier to lower standards than to raise them. There's always a race to the bottom. I don't think it's a big leap to suggest that what's considered the "minimum viable product" has decreased over the years. It's also no secret that software is getting worse. As to salaries, I think you forgot how things worked before. The reason companies like Google introduced free food and all the incentives was because increas…

I feel this is more true in the sense that when they don't care about money you can get them below market value and not that they are better. I find the most valuable employees to be the financially literate ones. The ones who're constantly thinking about the money aspect.

'Will we get more customers?' 'Will they be more likely to stay with us?' 'Are we screwing ourselves out of sales by offering to host a server for remote control on the PC connected to the tool, even though it's cool and we can implement it in a week?'

I'm more on the 'do it because it's cool' side and have had to be wrangled a couple times with such questions since what makes interesting work for myself often doesn't align with client needs or hurts sales, as stupid as it might be.

Re: Is America's jobs market nearing a cliff?

#422

Post by reactordev »

mlrtime wrote: post #407
cjs_ac wrote: post #385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I said, I agree with taking personal responsibility - I'm not sure why you're still trying to fight me on that. > You have two options. Continue to point fingers and complain and be broke, or start putting $100/mo in VOO and save what little money you have for your future? The imaginary person you're trying to give this advice to graduated from university eighteen months ago and has been living in their parents' h…

If my child was living with me for 18 months post graduation, they would have any job that pays > $0. I don't care if it's McDonalds, but they would be working.

Yup. At 17 I worked temp agencies, factory floors, making bricks, plastic injection molding, data entry, anything that put money in my account.

It’s not a career. It’s just a job.

Re: Is America's jobs market nearing a cliff?

#423

Post by reactordev »

ungovernableCat wrote: post #396
reactordev wrote: post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only thing they can control is themselves and their habits though. I’m not avoiding the fact that the economy is fucked. I’m fully aware. It’s up to you how much you’re willing to continue to pay or what you’re willing to sacrifice. It sucks, but the only thing you can control is yourself.

It’s just generic advice that doesn’t even really apply to the fresh grads, their issue is not having any entry point to a career anymore. I graduated 10 years ago and it’s a day and night difference. Whatever worked for me in 2015 will not work for a fresh grad today, the game is completely different.

But crying about not having a door to walk through isn’t going to change anything.

I graduated 20 years ago and it was different when you graduated just as it is different now. Things change. Economies change. Life changes. The advice I give is simply because that’s the only thing you can change. You and your habits.

I’m all for revolution.

I’m all for socialism w/ a sprinkle of free market capitalism.

I’m all for the better good of all fellow humans.

I empathize with fresh graduates who were told there would be ample jobs in their fields when they graduate 4-6 years from when they started. I struggle to empathize with those who see there are no jobs and do nothing. Anything is better than nothing.

Re: Is America's jobs market nearing a cliff?

#424

Post by fogj094j0923j4 »

reactordev wrote: post #379
cjs_ac wrote: post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I appreciate the point you're trying to make, and I agree taking responsibility for one's own life circumstances is the only way to improve them, but surely you understand that 'save and invest' is wholly unsuitable advice for someone with no disposable income or no income at all.

Who else is responsible for you? You have two options. Continue to point fingers and complain and be broke, or start putting $100/mo in VOO and save what little money you have for your future? I know it sucks. I know income inequality is huge. I know the only way out of this is to put in sweat equity. I know the only way to put food on the table is to have a second job at a gas station. I’ve been there. However, as m…

save and invest only makes sense if you can afford to not pull all savings every 3-5 years due to some unfortunate life event I feel like.

I'm pretty well off but my friends are in that siutation

Re: Is America's jobs market nearing a cliff?

#425

Post by zbentley »

travisgriggs wrote: post #132
sheepscreek wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but not some fresh graduates who can work 80 hours per week and only demand half of the salary Cause garbage in, gets garbage out. With AI models being all the more rage in the coming years, unexperienced hires will prove many times more costly. (10x garbage with agents). So companies are going to concentrate their worker base even more with experienced folks. They need fewer of them. Yes. But quality matters more…

Or, more dystopian take... it won't matter. If software reliability continues to degrade in a normalized fashion , it won't matter. First mover advantages and networking effects will make it impossible for an outfit trafficking increased quality to ever get enough breaths to even compete.

Depends on your definition of “compete”. Compete for VC funding and continually increasing growth? You’re right. Compete as in stay profitable and have a future? Less clear-cut.

Re: Is America's jobs market nearing a cliff?

#426

Post by lnsru »

kaashif wrote: post #208
johnnyanmac wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Junior engineers can fight back against this by Many juniors can't even meet with a human interviewer. There's no point maximizing for interviews that never come. That's the issue. >This is also a pressure against hiring teams overseas: This seems to agree with the issue. a team of 100 becomes a team of 5 locals and 95 outsourced work. Maybe those 5 managers are better off, but we're still reducing the local workfor…

Surely people who can't get a job aren't "junior engineers" - they're just graduates. Junior engineers, i.e. people who have already been hired, can indeed fight back by getting really good at their jobs. But you're right, it doesn't help you get hired if you can't even get an interview.

Being real good does not change the fact, that one is cost factor and at the end only a row in payroll spreadsheet. Junior with low salary and low compensation during layoff -> priority departure.

Having in couple hours unannounced meeting. My boss told me over private channel, that he just got fired. It’s very interesting and the home mortgage does not really help today. I was really good. Better than expected and accomplished few optional projects. Looks like it didn’t help again.

Re: Is America's jobs market nearing a cliff?

#427

Post by reactordev »

CalRobert wrote: post #419
reactordev wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was going to say this. Money comes, money goes, that’s life. Ideally you’re smart enough to save and invest to weather these storms but for those (like myself) that are still working hard post 40, we know it’s all part of the game. I tell the younger generation the same thing. Save, invest, max 401k, before you go off and party. Your older self will thank you.

If you save for retirement, you will be outbid for housing by those who are not saving.

And how are those who are not saving, affording to put down money for down payment and closing costs?

Saving for retirement doesn’t necessarily mean 401k but you can borrow from your 401k for down payment assistance so you really should be saving for your eventual retirement from day 1.

Re: Is America's jobs market nearing a cliff?

#428

Post by idiotsecant »

deadbabe wrote: post #417
GardenLetter27 wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, once you hit 50 the wall is real. You need to maximise your earnings during your 30s and 40s to be able to just do contracting, etc. then.

Take care of yourself: exercise, skin care, fashion trends, botox, hair dye, etc. so you do not look 50+ and no one will know the difference.

Can we just pause and consider what happened to this industry where this is the advice.

This is the natural consequence of marketing and fundraising completely destroying engineering. It's not about real things anymore. It's about image. It's an industry of carnival barkers turning everything it touches to shit.

Re: Is America's jobs market nearing a cliff?

#429

Post by forgotoldacc »

DrProtic wrote: post #366
forgotoldacc wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That signifies that your company is not appealing to impressive candidates for some reason or another. Companies that offer good pay, some other great benefits in the place of good pay, or kind of okay pay but very interesting work have no trouble getting people, especially in today's market.

That goes against the idea that impressive candidates have a difficulty finding a job.

No. Impressive candidates are applying to jobs that pay somewhat reasonably, even if it's below what they expect. If candidates who are desperate are still completely skipping over a company, that says something about that company.

Re: Is America's jobs market nearing a cliff?

#430

Post by fogj094j0923j4 »

chickensong wrote: post #347
goodolddays9090 wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah; I've heard a few people say versions of you get bored if you retire early, and I've soon to be retirees talk about how the people they know who retired to go do nothing just wasted away. I like tech; my challenge now is finding a gig with interesting work and a good work-life balance and p75 pay. That, and knowing when I actually have enough net worth to have more freedom. The problem is you never think it's en…

Boredom is a personality trait IMHO. Some of us never get bored, there's only lack of time and funds for hobbies and exploring.

This is something my 12 years old self used to say.
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