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EU Council Approves New "Chat Control" Mandate Pushing Mass Surveillance

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Re: EU Council Approves New "Chat Control" Mandate Pushing Mass Surveillance

#421

Post by mytailorisrich »

ben_w wrote: post #212
RobotToaster wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's generally how the EU works, they forced Ireland to hold another referenda after the first one rejected the Lisbon treaty

The Irish people demanded concessions, got them. Saying "forced" about this is like if someone offered me a job, me reading the offer and saying "can I do a 4-day week?", the company's response being "yes, here's a new contract for you to sign", and describing that second contract as "forced" on me.

The EU Constitution was rejected so they basically rolled its key provisions in the Lisbon Treaty.

This has been the typical modus operandi in the EU. There is always a correct answer and the people are free to choose as long as they choose it.

Re: EU Council Approves New "Chat Control" Mandate Pushing Mass Surveillance

#422

Post by hn_throw2025 »

jbstack wrote: post #156
hn_throw2025 wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve seen white British a couple of times in this thread. Reform policy is being drawn up by a team that’s led by a British Pakistani : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zia_Yusuf

Reform is also headed by a guy who regularly used phrases like "Hitler was right", "gas them all", and "go home, Paki" as an 18 year old (confirmed by 20+ former classmates). Ordinarily we might give him the benefit of the doubt: maybe he's matured and grown up since then. But the fact that he's called all of those classmates liars says that either they are all liars, or he is dishonest about his racism.

13 year old, actually.

The things said were truly disgusting.

I wouldn’t presume to speak for the Jewish community, but I would expect that they feel less threatened by something a child said in a playground during the 1970s, but rather the rampant antisemitism that has risen in our society, spearheaded by the toxic alliance of the hard left and the Islamists. Those are the ones who are assaulting Jewish people on the streets and hanging around Synagogues to “demonstrate”, or rather to intimidate them.

Re: EU Council Approves New "Chat Control" Mandate Pushing Mass Surveillance

#423

Post by hrimfaxi »

Fnoord wrote: post #409
hrimfaxi wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By one of your own references USA is in the top 3 for freedom of speech. https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/countries...

Yep, in fafs in 2021. Pew 2015: 8th. gsod 2023: 28th. On all of the freedoms, USA tends to do best on freedom of speech. But how can you say such, when the press has less freedom than in other rich West countries? Isn't that counter interactive?

I didn't say it, your sources did.

> There's a good reason why on every half-serious index about freedom of speech or freedom of press, the best countries are Scandinavian and Switzerland, followed by West-Europe. And that data is from before the current orangutan is in office.

Can you share your half-serious indicies?

Re: EU Council Approves New "Chat Control" Mandate Pushing Mass Surveillance

#424

Post by zelphirkalt »

squigz wrote: post #417
zelphirkalt wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tell me more about that, while here in Germany people again and again vote against their own interest (AfD, CDU, SPD, and all the other corrupt and inept politicians and parties) and the mainstream parties have not managed to improve our situation for some 4-5 election cycles. Tell me more about that, while looking at the US. I am quite sure many other countries can be added to this list.

It's easy to reach for the "people are stupid" argument. It's harder to ask, "Why are people still voting for this despite it seemingly being against their interests" But once you do start asking that question, you'll find "they're just stupid" isn't really the only answer. At least 1 other answer would be they're responding to politics of other parties failing them too. Is it the most rational decision for those peo…

Depends on how you define "stupid". In many cases you could say "unaware" or "forgetful" instead of "stupid". And mind, I did not say "stupid". That's a word you threw into this.

As to why they still vote like they do:

(1) Because every 4 years the mainstream party promise to solve some problems, netting votes of the young, gullible, or inexperienced voters.

(2) Promise pension increase, netting votes of the ever increasing amount of old people, most who don't care about who or what comes after them.

(3) People are too busy, burned out, or lazy (we still have it too good here, it seems), and cannot be arsed to inform themselves before elections. We also have tons of people, who are truly learning-resistant, right out of school or "university".

(4) People think, that SPD, CDU, Greens, etc. are the only way to stop AfD.

I think we are not very high on the democratic-ability scale. Yes, we vote every 4 years, but it is more like collectively we don't really care enough to inform ourselves properly and just check a few boxes, because we want to tell ourselves, that at least we did vote and that we are fine democratic citizen.

And look, I myself am not frequently reading all parties' positions. And I myself inform myself more shortly before an election, rather than all the time. But I do have a feeling for corruption and I don't always forget scandals that happen, when the next engagement-optimized news headline comes in. I still remember Rezo's "Zerstoerung der CDU" video. I remember reading those abgeordnetenwatch newsletters about the lobby register. Or the foodwatch newsletters about Kloeckner and the Lebensmittelampel. That's why I will not vote for mainstream-promise-a-lot-but-no-delivery parties and retired people clubs. And what more I do, is to use the Wahlomat, and actually check which party's position aligns most with my own.

I don't do too much either, but most people do way less to inform themselves. They just check a box out of habit. Why they vote for CDU/SPD? Because that's what they always did. It's real friggin dumb.

Re: EU Council Approves New "Chat Control" Mandate Pushing Mass Surveillance

#425

Post by zelphirkalt »

squigz wrote: post #416
DangitBobby wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure what factual basis you have for your optimism. I have plenty for my pessimism about human nature and our ability to competently govern ourselves as well as our general moral fortitude. We've gotten this far because we've been playing life on easy mode with a ridiculously nurturing planet and practically unlimited energy available under the ground, but we aren't smart enough or forward thinking enough to…

> We've gotten this far because we've been playing life on easy mode with a ridiculously nurturing planet and practically unlimited energy available under the ground, but we aren't smart enough or forward thinking enough to take on the minor pain necessary to avoid the catastrophe we are lumbering towards. We are short-sighted, selfish, self-important, and we haven't earned the regard in which we hold ourselves. Wher…

Now one could counter equally, that people you interact with directly are:

(a) limited in number due to the nature of your interaction with them

(b) will express themselves differently, due to the nature of interaction. (Just like people expressing themselves online act differently.)

(c) are probably also a very specific group or bubble, which is simply the people you get to interact with. Which _might_ be more varied than the other person online, but might also be less varied. Really depends on how you pick the people you interact with.

(d) Anecdote of one person N=1 is not really a good factual basis for other people.

So if you want to show how your view is more based on evidence, then you will have to do better than anecdote and no links to statistics or cases we can peruse.

Re: EU Council Approves New "Chat Control" Mandate Pushing Mass Surveillance

#426

Post by Fnoord »

hrimfaxi wrote: post #423
Fnoord wrote: post #409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, in fafs in 2021. Pew 2015: 8th. gsod 2023: 28th. On all of the freedoms, USA tends to do best on freedom of speech. But how can you say such, when the press has less freedom than in other rich West countries? Isn't that counter interactive?

I didn't say it, your sources did. > There's a good reason why on every half-serious index about freedom of speech or freedom of press, the best countries are Scandinavian and Switzerland, followed by West-Europe. And that data is from before the current orangutan is in office. Can you share your half-serious indicies?

> Can you share your half-serious indicies?

I already shared them.

The Democracy Index is by The Economist [1]. The USA was #28 there (2024), well below Scandinavian countries, Switzerland, and well below Germany, The Netherlands, United Kingdom, and various others. That's from 2024, before Trump's attack on the US democracy.

World Press Freedom Index by Reports Without Borders [2]. The USA is #57 in this list (2025), in the yellow color ('problematic').

Also, take note that both of these values are world-wide under threat, and the USA is part of being under this threat.

You also wrote in your previous post:

> By one of your own references USA is in the top 3 for freedom of speech.

But that one has incomplete data. It lacks data from like half the world. Finland, Iceland, The Netherlands, Switzerland (each countries doing well on every other index) aren't included.

> I didn't say it, your sources did.

Yeah, they couldn't know your country would be nearing a constitutional crisis by end of 2025.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Economist_Democracy_Index

Re: EU Council Approves New "Chat Control" Mandate Pushing Mass Surveillance

#427

Post by [deleted] »

ben_w wrote: post #363
iamnothere wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have an absurd level of confidence in government competence. Not even China can pull this off.

China isn't doing it for the same reasons I already said. Can't square the circle. Crypto is too important. Must have. Can't have. Must have. Can't have. If it was easy to come down one side or the other, everyone in the world would be on the same page. The tension between them is pulling everyone in both directions.

[deleted]

Re: EU Council Approves New "Chat Control" Mandate Pushing Mass Surveillance

#428

Post by anticensor »

energy123 wrote: post #191
petcat wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't care about Greenland one way or another, but I find it funny that the Europeans are so visibly upset about this when the Danish took the territory without permission themselves and are now crying that an even bigger thief might want to come take it from them.

Meanwhile they turn a blind eye to Turkey taking Cyprus because they need Turkey on side for the migration crisis and Ukraine. Everyone operates on self-interest but not everyone is smug about it.

TRNC is a separate country with its own laws, even though it is pretty much economically dependent on Turkey.

Re: EU Council Approves New "Chat Control" Mandate Pushing Mass Surveillance

#429

Post by balamatom »

jounker wrote: post #368
npodbielski wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is obvious? Why they need my messages for the voice speech emulation?

The person you’re replying to is saying that in the several years the technological means to impersonate people at scale has become widely available, and because of this financial institutions are having to strengthen their security measures to defend against fraud.

Wrong, I am saying that you are already an impersonation of an impersonation and that's the only reason you have access to banking in the first place.

Re: EU Council Approves New "Chat Control" Mandate Pushing Mass Surveillance

#430

Post by balamatom »

lifestyleguru wrote: post #415
jounker wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The person you’re replying to is saying that in the several years the technological means to impersonate people at scale has become widely available, and because of this financial institutions are having to strengthen their security measures to defend against fraud.

When last time employee of bank or public administration in developed world paid consequences for leaking private or biometric data, copies of documents or documents themselves? Because now you have kiddos in customer service demanding things like deed of purchase of real estate or inheritance documents.

Well, that's why we've made 'em and put 'em there - we need accountability sinks!
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