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My stages of learning to be a socially normal person

sashachapin.substack.com

421–430 of 444 posts

Re: My stages of learning to be a socially normal person

#421
post #415
post #389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm criticizing being an asshole to people who are not naturally the way society expects and had to work their way through. But to be fair I'm mostly criticizing useless HN post-hoc rationalization. > Refusing to be an asshole to someone being an asshole just enables them being an asshole. I have nothing to do with this. > Refusing to judge if someone is being an asshole, ensures that someone being an asshole will se…

How is someone supposed to know that the person acting like an asshole is doing it because of some ‘good’ reason, or because they are just a jerk?

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Re: My stages of learning to be a socially normal person

#423
post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a bullshit rationalization for horrible behavior. The people doing the judging certainly aren't gonna reproduce with 99.99999% of the people being judged, and I'm being extremely generous here.

You might think that those people’s opinions don’t matter, but it turns out that ‘lots of other people value me highly’ is in itself a signal. And yes, it is horrible, but if you want to solve a problem, you must first understand the problem, and ‘some people are just born with Evil in their hearts’ is not a very good sociological model.

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Re: My stages of learning to be a socially normal person

#424
post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Calling it "ulterior motive" is already a judgement call. Being better at socialization is virtually demanded by society. "Not looking good" is also punished. There is nothing ulterior about anything. The fact that a certain chunk of society demands both perfection and authenticity already makes it necessary for people to not be transparent about such things.

By definition all discussion about opinions, perceptions, etc., are judgement calls…?

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Re: My stages of learning to be a socially normal person

#425
post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best small talkers say very little. We just ask interested questions about what you've already said. An easy cold opener at parties is, "So how do you know the host?" Then inquire about whether they're still doing that thing, or how long ago it was, or where they did it, whether they learned any cool things--the point is to keep asking questions. Most people love talking about themselves and things they like to d…

You might think so, but a lot of people can tell when you're ELIZA-ing them to death, and they will learn to avoid you. There are a lot of people on HN who want a technical manual for how to party, and a lot of them keep telling each other that the art of conversation is about attentive listening. Can you imagine a conversation between two people practicing attentive listening on each other?

The "will learn to avoid you" part is what I was getting at in my warning at the end. This only gets you through a few interactions.

The point of small talk is to get to medium talk. It's not directionless. Medium talk just means you've found a topic that both of you are interested in enough to talk about it for five to ten minutes without getting bored. That you both know the host is one of the few things it's culturally safe to assume anymore. Both of you met the host doing something you like well enough to associate with a person you met doing that thing when you're not doing that thing, so if either of those things happen to be an appropriate subject for medium talk, great. Now you're out of small talk and just "talking to this person I just met at this party about a thing we both like." If you're lucky, it's something you both actually like a lot, and then you have a basis for large talk, and large talk opens the door to casual friendship.

If you don't happen to draw a medium or large talk topic out of the gate, that's when you poke around the edges of the small talk, looking for things that could be fodder for medium talk. If you try looking for three or four and aren't getting anywhere, you've still filled the appropriate 5-10 minutes not to seem like a jerk, and now you need a snack, or a drink, and a new conversation partner.

It helps a lot if you're genuinely interested in a wide variety of things, enough that you can ask intelligent questions about them, because it increases the likelihood that you can find a shared interest with this person you've just met. That's not just "attentive listening." It's "finding out why someone cares about something interesting to them because you sincerely want to know."

If the other person isn't engaging with you at all, isn't trying to find one of these topics with you, they actually just don't want to talk to you. That's how people communicate this. It's not usually personal. They haven't known you long enough for it to be really personal. They may not even consciously realize they don't want to talk to you, but it's still true, and you're doing them a favor when you recognize that and excuse yourself.

Re: My stages of learning to be a socially normal person

#426

This post wasn't what I was expecting from the "socially normal" title. While there is a lot of self-reflection and growth in this piece, a lot of the points felt more like learning how to charm, manipulate, and game social interactions. Look at the first two subheadings: > 1: Connecting with people is about being a dazzling person > 2: Connecting with people is about playing their game The post felt like a rollercoa…

> Look at the first two subheadings

Which the author says are stages he grew out of. He's not saying that those things are what connecting with people is actually about.

Re: My stages of learning to be a socially normal person

#427
post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The goalposts for "sexism" have moved to the edge of the galaxy if people today think that's sexism. Parent says that "identity is socially-constructed", they defend trans people, they say it "isn't any less justifiable than being assigned good ol' football-playin', roughhousin', English class-hatin', red-blooded American manhood" - but the fact they said "presenting" as opposed to "being" a woman is sexism, as if th…

It is sexism, in that this promotes sexist stereotypes regarding how women should present themselves. There is similar sexism inherent in the concept of "manhood", as well.

The irony of your white knighting is that its in reply to a kind thoughtful and insightful reply to probably one of the most gender non conforming people you've ever interacted with, who didn't see any problem with it.

Re: My stages of learning to be a socially normal person

#428
post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What comes across as creepy about the techniques is that the approach doesn't seem to involve personal consequences; it seems to be sterile, like a game with no negative effects if it goes wrong. Normal people have all sorts of anxiety and potential hurt if they do these things, since they know how they affect others. Personally I'd prefer that "spectrum" individuals just be themselves. I take it as my own shortcomin…

This is very strange to me. As a neurotypical person (I don't think the term "normal" is appropriate) I'm probably doing or did the same things the article is talking about. And I never thought about negative consequences, except when I was extremely anxious. If anything, people on the spectrum, introvert, or just awkward are probably thinking about the consequences (positive or negative) way more than someone like m…

By authenticity I mean being able to speak your thoughts without having to strategize around the other party being unable to handle it like a mature adult.

Re: My stages of learning to be a socially normal person

#429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What comes across as creepy about the techniques is that the approach doesn't seem to involve personal consequences; it seems to be sterile, like a game with no negative effects if it goes wrong. Normal people have all sorts of anxiety and potential hurt if they do these things, since they know how they affect others. Personally I'd prefer that "spectrum" individuals just be themselves. I take it as my own shortcomin…

> I like the challenge of interacting with someone who does things very differently. So this is about you?

Yes, my whole comment was about me and my experiences. That specific point was that I don't see it as a burden that someone is interacting me differently than most people do.

Re: My stages of learning to be a socially normal person

#430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My take living as a relatively high functioning autistic (& other things) person and having many neurodivergent friends is that instrumentalizing is more often due to relational failures due to developmental social differences. The underlying of those is most often a hypersensitive (to sight, sound, smells, touch) individual having periods of being overwhelmed by the world around them. Couple that with parents who re…

I think this is where the high incidence of neurodivergence in the trans community and certain subcultures (furries, roleplaying) comes to fore. Autism is often accompanied by identity conflicts - between what you're labeled as, and how people treat you, and how you feel about yourself - because communication disruptions are common when neurotypes are unaligned, and identity is both the reason for and the means by wh…

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