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Uv is the best thing to happen to the Python ecosystem in a decade

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Re: Uv is the best thing to happen to the Python ecosystem in a decade

#421

Post by WatchDog »

anp wrote: post #205
hardwaregeek wrote: post #149

I gotta say, I feel pretty vindicated after hearing for years how Python’s tooling was just fine and you should just use virtualenv with pip and how JS must be worse, that when Python devs finally get a taste of npm/cargo/bundler in their ecosystem, they freaking love it. Because yes, npm has its issues but lock files and consistent installs are amazing

Might be worth noting that npm didn’t have lock files for quite a long time, which is the era during which I formed my mental model of npm hell. The popularity of yarn (again importing bundled/cargo-isms) seems like maybe the main reason npm isn’t as bad as it used to be.

Lock files are only needed because of version ranging.

Maven worked fine without semantic versioning and lock files.

Edit: Changed "semantic versioning" to "version ranging"

Re: Uv is the best thing to happen to the Python ecosystem in a decade

#422

Post by LtWorf »

caconym_ wrote: post #227
hardwaregeek wrote: post #149

I gotta say, I feel pretty vindicated after hearing for years how Python’s tooling was just fine and you should just use virtualenv with pip and how JS must be worse, that when Python devs finally get a taste of npm/cargo/bundler in their ecosystem, they freaking love it. Because yes, npm has its issues but lock files and consistent installs are amazing

There is nothing I dread more within the general context of software development, broadly , than trying to run other people's Python projects. Nothing. It's shocking that it has been so bad for so long.

Just stick to what's in your linux distribution and you've got no problems.

Re: Uv is the best thing to happen to the Python ecosystem in a decade

#423

Post by LtWorf »

bruckie wrote: post #63
atonse wrote: post #29

These rust based tools really change the idea of what's possible (when you can get feedback in milliseconds). But I'm trying to figure out what Astral as a company does for revenue. I don't see any paid products on their website. They even have investors. So far it seems like they have a bunch of these high performance tools. Is this part of an upcoming product suite for python or something? Just curious. I'm not a f…

From "So how does Astral plan to make money? " ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44358216 ): "What I want to do is build software that vertically integrates with our open source tools, and sell that software to companies that are already using Ruff, uv, etc. Alternatives to things that companies already pay for today. An example of what this might look like [...] would be something like an enterprise-focused pri…

It doesn't seem to answer to anything.

Re: Uv is the best thing to happen to the Python ecosystem in a decade

#424

Post by LtWorf »

maccard wrote: post #128
runningmike wrote: post #19

Seems like a commercial blog. And imho hatch is better from a Foss perspective. UV means getting more strings attached with VC funded companies and leaning on their infrastructure. This is a high risk for any FOSS community and history tells us how this ends….

You say this on a message board run by a VC about a programming language that is primarily developed by meta, google and co. uv is MIT licensed so if they rug pull, you can fork.

It's still annoying to fork and they will probably try to move it to their own pypi service so it won't be possible to do that.

Re: Uv is the best thing to happen to the Python ecosystem in a decade

#425

Post by icar »

embe42 wrote: post #88
dekhn wrote: post #58

I hadn't paid any attention to rust before uv, but since starting to use uv, I've switched a lot of my performance-sensitive code dev to rust (with interfaces to python). These sorts of improvements really do improve my quality of life significantly. My hope is that conda goes away completely. I run an ML cluster and we have multi-gigabyte conda directories and researchers who can't reproduce anything because just to…

You might be interested in pixi, which is roughly to conda as uv is to pip (also written in Rust, it reuses the uv solver for PyPI packages)

This seems to pretty much cover the same use cases as Mise. Is that true?

Re: Uv is the best thing to happen to the Python ecosystem in a decade

#427

Post by jrochkind1 »

hardwaregeek wrote: post #149

I gotta say, I feel pretty vindicated after hearing for years how Python’s tooling was just fine and you should just use virtualenv with pip and how JS must be worse, that when Python devs finally get a taste of npm/cargo/bundler in their ecosystem, they freaking love it. Because yes, npm has its issues but lock files and consistent installs are amazing

Yeah, python's tooling for dependency management was definitely not just fine, it was a disaster.

Coming from ruby. However, I think uv has actually now surpassed bundler and the ruby standard toolset for these things. Definitely surpassed npm, which is also not fine. Couldn't speak for cargo.

Re: Uv is the best thing to happen to the Python ecosystem in a decade

#428

Post by IshKebab »

zmmmmm wrote: post #260

> Instead of > > source .venv/bin/activate > python myscript.py > > you can just do > > > uv run myscript > This is by far the biggest turn off for me. The whole point of an environment manager is set the environment so that the commands I run work. They need to run natively how they are supposed to when the environment is set, not put through a translation layer. Side rant: yes I get triggered whenever someone tells…

You can still do the `source .venv/bin/activate` if you want.

There's also `uv tool install` which will install things in your PATH without infecting your system with Python.

Re: Uv is the best thing to happen to the Python ecosystem in a decade

#430

Post by 9dev »

eikenberry wrote: post #341

I either want one universal tool that can manage this sort of thing across multiple languages (eg. devenv) or a native, built-in tool (eg. go's tooling). I don't see how this is any different from all the previous incarnations of Python's project/package management tools. The constant churning of 3rd party tooling for Python was one of the main reasons I mostly stopped using it for anything but smaller scripts.

The difference is that this one is actually good. So good, in fact, that there is considerable momentum and thus adoption with this tool, and I wouldn’t be surprised if it reaches a similar state like npm is for node eventually.
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