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Amazon confirms 14,000 job losses in corporate division

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Re: Amazon confirms 14,000 job losses in corporate division

#421

Post by JustExAWS »

Covenant0028 wrote: post #164
VBprogrammer wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not really sure how this fits with Amazon's corporate culture. I thought all of the dead wood good pip'ed out of there on an ongoing basis. If people are surviving that then who are are the people being ejected? Unprofitable areas or new products which didn't pan out?

My theory is that when an organization descends into a cycle of repetitive downsizings, it inevitably leads to people focusing more on protecting their jobs than on business value. By the process of natural selection, the people who survive such rounds of firings are the ones with the political skills to survive them. Some of those guys will be star performers, but most will simply be politicians. Over time, this pro…

Unless you are in the position of Zuckerberg or the Google founders, everyone’s main motivation is to keep their jobs.

If you are just an employee - it’s beyond naive to prioritize anything but your own job. Of course I am not advocating back stabbing and throwing others under the bus. Getting ahead in BigTech is always about playing politics and getting on the right projects to show “impact”.

Re: Amazon confirms 14,000 job losses in corporate division

#422

Post by ericmay »

martin-t wrote: post #419
ericmay wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What does the R stand for? Restricted, but your point isn’t a good one. You don’t hire someone then hand them, idk $50,000 in stock or options so they can leave the next day. CEOs even get paid in stock grants based on performance or other such restrictions options, etc., (obviously there’s a lot of variation here) with lots of strings attached (maybe not enough but that’s beside the point). > In a society which cl…

> You don’t hire someone then hand them, idk $50,000 in stock or options so they can leave the next day Exactly, that's why I say ownership should be proportional to the amount of work done (and perhaps skill involved). > No, you are making this up. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_men_are_created_equal Many countries have similar clauses in their rulesets. And they don't only apply to the state, in many countries i…

Yes, Martin. All men (and women) are created equal. The purpose of that document and in that phrase is that all are created equal under the purview of the law or God, not that "society should be equal". Those are completely different things and as you mentioned, it's a very popular (and stupid) meme which is why I responded specifically to what you wrote there.

> Exactly, that's why I say ownership should be proportional to the amount of work done (and perhaps skill involved).

This sounds reasonable, as all bad ideas usually do (and good ones sometimes) but the complexity is in the implementation. If I start a business and hire someone who is going to do 50% of the work, I give them 50% of the company (generally speaking not even talking about $ investments here).

Well, what do you do when your company hires over a million people? And, what do you actually distribute to the employees? Is it the market value of the company divided amongst employees? If they work for 6 months how much value do they get? How exactly are you assessing the value that someone is delivering or the amount of work that was done?

There aren't easy answers to these questions. We are in fact not great as a society (and I'm not sure we should even strive to be) at assessing who did what work. And, how do you handle people who are less skilled because they were born that way? Some people just aren't capable or competent and that's a genetic fact of life. Oh, by the way, what if you leave the company for more pay? How does that work?

Your simple idea opens up a pretty nasty can of worms here without clear answers. But there is one solution - if you (or others) think that giving ownership proportional to the amount of work done is the best way to run a company, the free market is right there waiting for you to give it a go.

Re: Amazon confirms 14,000 job losses in corporate division

#423

Post by j_w »

JustExAWS wrote: post #421
Covenant0028 wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My theory is that when an organization descends into a cycle of repetitive downsizings, it inevitably leads to people focusing more on protecting their jobs than on business value. By the process of natural selection, the people who survive such rounds of firings are the ones with the political skills to survive them. Some of those guys will be star performers, but most will simply be politicians. Over time, this pro…

Unless you are in the position of Zuckerberg or the Google founders, everyone’s main motivation is to keep their jobs. If you are just an employee - it’s beyond naive to prioritize anything but your own job. Of course I am not advocating back stabbing and throwing others under the bus. Getting ahead in BigTech is always about playing politics and getting on the right projects to show “impact”.

It's a matter of it being an active vs passive effort to "keep your job." Once you have to actively worry about the status of your job something is wrong (be it with you or your employer).

Re: Amazon confirms 14,000 job losses in corporate division

#424

Post by JustExAWS »

ericmay wrote: post #390
raw_anon_1111 wrote: post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always find this so funny. “Citizens have guns so they can overthrow a government that has tanks, helicopters, nuclear weapons, bunker busting bombs, etc”

Ok so the US military is going to drop a nuclear weapon on Dallas or Buffalo to stop insurgents? Why even bother writing something like that when you know it’s stupid? Obviously governments have superior firepower and can and have quashed rebellions. But rebellions have been successful as well. Taking away arms from the people makes rebellion in the case of tyranny that much harder. I don’t think it’s unfair to quest…

If today, the National Guard dropped a non nuclear bomb on a blue city, 40% of the US population would shrug if not outright cheer.

https://digitalcommons.wayne.edu/socprac/vol10/iss1/15/

Rebellions have been successful in underfunded countries with few resources. Can you actually come up with a scenario where a few yokels in the south running around the field playing militia could overthrow the US government?

And those people were all pardoned by the same President who cheered them and on and he was voted back into office. If Trump - who was still president then had wanted to call in the full force of government he could have.

Do you think they would have let thousands of minorities invade the capital?

Re: Amazon confirms 14,000 job losses in corporate division

#425

Post by bluGill »

stackskipton wrote: post #409
bluGill wrote: post #362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In most cases when a company wants to fire someone they will first pull them into an office and tell them they are allowed to submit their resignation right now. If this happens it is normally best for you to accept that offer as then they will say you left in good standing. At least this way you can find a new job. There is the possible exception that you already have enough evidence that you were going to sue them…

No, don’t resign instead of getting terminated. The reason they offer that is gets them off the hook for unemployment and makes any lawsuit harder. It’s 100% upside to company. No one is going to know you got fired, if they call the company, it’s just dates and title, probably say in good standing. It’s in old company best interest for you to get a new job because jobless people start talking to lawyers when they get…

> makes any lawsuit harder. It’s 100% upside to company.

That is why they do it. However you still should accept the offer unless you are going to sue them which most are not. Just find a new job and move on. Try to do better.

> No one is going to know you got fired, if they call the company, it’s just dates and title, probably say in good standing.

The good standing is not something you want to risk. They have the ability to say not in good standing and might even have the obligation to say that to some people (depending on local laws, but if it wasn't in good standing it is at least unethical to say it was). By resigning first everyone agrees that it was in good standing and you all move on (even though you are clearly cutting the line).

Again, this assumes that like most people you won't be suing. Likely you know you screwed up (though perhaps you don't agree it is bad enough to be fired). For most it just isn't worth trying to fight it out. If you are an exception than by all means refuse - but be prepared for the consequences.

Re: Amazon confirms 14,000 job losses in corporate division

#426

Post by forbiddenvoid »

lingrush4 wrote: post #264
reaperducer wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Never mind the fact that families were affected and employees were constantly stressed near the end of every quarter. It's this sort of thing that has me re-thinking the fairness of employees giving employers the customary (in the United States) two week notice before leaving. Employees don't get two weeks notice before being fired without cause. It's supposed to be because replacing an employee is so difficult for t…

For layoffs like this, employers typically give out two months of severance, so I'm not sure what you're whining about. Of course if you're willing to burn bridges with your employer, there's nothing stopping you from quitting immediately. Have at it.

Companies pay out severance mostly for compliance with the WARN act. If they could get away with not doing this, they absolutely would.

Re: Amazon confirms 14,000 job losses in corporate division

#427

Post by ericmay »

JustExAWS wrote: post #424
ericmay wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok so the US military is going to drop a nuclear weapon on Dallas or Buffalo to stop insurgents? Why even bother writing something like that when you know it’s stupid? Obviously governments have superior firepower and can and have quashed rebellions. But rebellions have been successful as well. Taking away arms from the people makes rebellion in the case of tyranny that much harder. I don’t think it’s unfair to quest…

If today, the National Guard dropped a non nuclear bomb on a blue city, 40% of the US population would shrug if not outright cheer. https://digitalcommons.wayne.edu/socprac/vol10/iss1/15/ Rebellions have been successful in underfunded countries with few resources. Can you actually come up with a scenario where a few yokels in the south running around the field playing militia could overthrow the US government? And th…

There are no red or blue cities or states. This is a made up fiction and we should stop using those terms because they are divisive and only serve to make the country weak.

> Can you actually come up with a scenario where a few yokels in the south running around the field playing militia could overthrow the US government?

No because that's a strawman. Though those yokels on January 6th sure gave it a try.

> If today, the National Guard dropped a non nuclear bomb on a blue city, 40% of the US population would shrug if not outright cheer.

This would never happen unless there's a zombie apocalypse or that city was invaded by another country. No American would cheer a nuclear bomb being dropped on New York or Houston or something - why are you even entertaining such outlandish nonsense?

Re: Amazon confirms 14,000 job losses in corporate division

#428

Post by _DeadFred_ »

pinnochio wrote: post #303
rco8786 wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's why "layoff" is the right word to use. It makes it clear that it was Amazon's decision and not through any direct fault of the employee.

Yes. Job loss is what the employee experiences, not the employer.

The owner of the employer company just experienced a vacation in space, renting an entire European country for a wedding, etc.

Some employees are going to experience losing their housing. Losing their health benefits while sick. Children will be moved from their friends/schools. Some will lose their careers as they won't find new related work quick enough and will have to take whatever they can get for their next job.

While the owner vacations in space for fun.

Re: Amazon confirms 14,000 job losses in corporate division

#429

Post by JustExAWS »

ericmay wrote: post #427
JustExAWS wrote: post #424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If today, the National Guard dropped a non nuclear bomb on a blue city, 40% of the US population would shrug if not outright cheer. https://digitalcommons.wayne.edu/socprac/vol10/iss1/15/ Rebellions have been successful in underfunded countries with few resources. Can you actually come up with a scenario where a few yokels in the south running around the field playing militia could overthrow the US government? And th…

There are no red or blue cities or states. This is a made up fiction and we should stop using those terms because they are divisive and only serve to make the country weak. > Can you actually come up with a scenario where a few yokels in the south running around the field playing militia could overthrow the US government? No because that's a strawman. Though those yokels on January 6th sure gave it a try. > If today,…

There are very much two views of what America should be like and pretending there isn’t is why Democrats keep losing.

40% of Americans cheer how the current administration treats immigrants, non straight people, etc and continue defend the words of a racist podcaster. They wouldn’t want a “nuclear” bomb because it affects them. But there was no real fallout politically for the police MOVE bombing.

If you don’t think this country is divided, you haven’t been looking at where this country is and it’s view on reality.

Those yokels on January 6th tried. But do you think they could have overcome even the local SWAT let alone the military? There have been yokels running around for decades trying. Heck an entire Confedrrsre army couldn’t defeat the US government backed by the states

Re: Amazon confirms 14,000 job losses in corporate division

#430

Post by hobs »

tonyhart7 wrote: post #94
hobs wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

get a new job every two years, spend the first year working hard and the second year getting a new job

"get a new job every two years, spend the first year working hard and the second year getting a new job" but you just assuming the vacancies position stayed the same which is never happen

No, you are not applying for one target job, but one target promotion, the company is less important compared to the promo path and often times you can do things like get a promo and come back to your original company with 200% the salary.
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