Live data from Hacker News

Meta is axing 600 roles across its AI division

theverge.com

421–430 of 506 posts

Re: Meta is axing 600 roles across its AI division

#421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If consumers are out of work, who the hell is going to keep the economy going? There is a whole field of research called post scarcity economy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-scarcity tldr; it's not as bad as you think, but the transition is going to be bad (for some of us).

> for some of us I've read that before: “Many men of course became extremely rich, but this was perfectly natural and nothing to be ashamed of because no one was really poor – at least no one worth speaking of.”

Douglas Adams, The Ultimate Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy, about the custom planet industry

https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/437536-many-men-of-course-b...

Re: Meta is axing 600 roles across its AI division

#422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Big tech is suffering from the incumbents disease. What worked well for extracting profits from stable cash cows doesn't work in fields that are moving rapidly. Google et al. were at one point pinnacle technologies too, but this was 20 years ago. Everyone who knew how to work in that environment has moved on or moved up. Were I the CEO of a company like that I'd reduce headcount in the legacy orgs, transition them to…

Once you have a golden goose, the risk taking innovators who built the thing are replaced by risk averse managers who protect it. Not killing the golden goose becomes priority 1, 2, and 3. I think this is the steel man of “founder mode” conversation that people were obsessed with a year ago. People obsessed with “process” who are happy if nothing is accomplished because at least no policy was violated, ignoring the f…

Feels like this is the fundamental flaw with a lot of things not just in the private sector, but the public one too.

Look at the FDA, where it's notoriously bogged down in red tape, and the incentives slant heavily towards rejection. This makes getting pharmaceuticals out even more expensive, and raises the overall cost of healthcare.

It's too easy to say no, and people prioritize CYA over getting things done. The question then becomes how do you get people (and orgs by extension), to better handle risk, rather than opting for the safe option at every turn?

Re: Meta is axing 600 roles across its AI division

#423
post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So I started at Google in 2020 (after Sam closed our lab down in 2017 to focus on OpenAI), and if they were hoarding it, I at least had no clue about it. To be clear, my perspective is still limited.

Fair enough, maybe a better way to put it is: why was the current AI boom sparked by ChatGPT and not something from Google? It's clear in retrospect that Google had similar capabilities in LaMDA, the precursor to Gemini. As I recall it was even announced a couple years before ChatGPT but wasn't released (as Bard?) until after ChatGPT. LaMDA is probably more famous for convincing a Google employee that it was sentient…

Google had been burned badly in multiple previous launches of ML-based products and their leadership was extremely cautious about moving too quickly. It was convenient for Google that OpenAI acted as a first mover so that Google could enter the field after there was some level of cultural acceptance of the negative behaviors. There's a whole backstory where Noam Shazeer had come up with a bunch of nice innovations and wanted to launch them, but was only able to do so by leaving and launching through his startup- and then returned to Google, negotiating a phenomenal deal (Noam has been at Google for 25 years and has been doing various ML projects for much of that time).

Re: Meta is axing 600 roles across its AI division

#424
post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, let's give a concrete example. I want to use an SaaS as part of my job. My manager knows this and supports it. In the process of me trying to sign up for the SaaS, I have to contact various groups in the company- the cost center folks to get an approval for spending the money to get the SaaS, the security folk to ensure we're not accidentally leaking IP to the outside world, the legal folks to make sure the con…

> I have to contact various groups in the company- the cost center folks to get an approval for spending the money to get the SaaS, the security folk to ensure we're not accidentally leaking IP to the outside world, the legal folks to make sure the contract negotiations go smoothly. I guess I was assuming (maybe wrongly) that you are an engineer/developer of some sort. All of that work sounds like manager work to me.…

I only started managing people recently (and still do some engineering and development, along with various project management- my job title is "Senior Principal Machine Learning Engineer - so not really even a management track).

I have a lot of experience doing this sort of work (IE, some product management, project management, customer/stakeholder relationships, vendor relationships, telling the industrial contractor where to cut a hole in the concrete for the fiber, changing out the RAM on a storage server in the data center, negotiate a multi-million dollar contract with AWS, give a presentation at re:Invent to get a discount on AWS, etc) because really, my goal is to make things happen using all my talents.

I work with my manager- I keep him up to date on stuff, but if I feel strongly about things, and document my thinking, I can generally move with a fair level of autonomy.

It's been that way throughout my career- although I would love to just sit around and work on code I think is useful, I've always had to carry out lots of extra tasks. Starting as a scientist, I had to deal with writing grants and networking at conferences more than I had time to sit around in the lab running experiments or writing code. Later, working as an IC in various companies, I always found that challenging things got done quicker if I just did them myself rather than depending on somebody else in my org to do it.

"Manager" means different things, btw. There's people managers, product managers, project managers, resource managers. Many of those roles are implemented by IC engineer/developers.

Re: Meta is axing 600 roles across its AI division

#425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tbh yes. I like AI but I'm getting a bit sick of the hype. All our top dogs want AI in everything no matter whether it actually benefits the product. They even know it's senseless but they need to show the shareholders that they are all-in on AI. It's really time for this bubble to collapse so we can go back to working on things that actually make sense rather than ticking boxes.

In optimising for AI it feels like we stopped optimising for everything else

It's not even optimising. It's just dragging AI by the hairs into everywhere, where it's not even clear whether it belongs there or provides any benefit. Just to get the company a reputation of "first mover".

Really, this is "blockchain" all over again, but 10x worse.

Re: Meta is axing 600 roles across its AI division

#426
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm seeing a lot of frustration at the leadership level about product velocity- and much of the frustration is pointed at internal gatekeepers who mainly seem to say no to product releases. My leadership is currently promoting "better to ask forgiveness", or put another way: "a bias towards action". There are definitely limits on this, but it's been helpful when dealing with various internal negotiations. I don't spe…

Big tech is suffering from the incumbents disease. What worked well for extracting profits from stable cash cows doesn't work in fields that are moving rapidly. Google et al. were at one point pinnacle technologies too, but this was 20 years ago. Everyone who knew how to work in that environment has moved on or moved up. Were I the CEO of a company like that I'd reduce headcount in the legacy orgs, transition them to…

> Were I the CEO of a company like that I'd reduce headcount in the legacy orgs, transition them to maintenance mode, and start new orgs within the company that are as insulated from legacy as possible. This will not be an easy transition, and will probably fail. The alternative however is to definitely fail.

Oh wow. Want to kill morale and ensure if a few years anyone decent has moved on? Make a shiny new team of the future and put existing employees in "not the team of the future".

Any motivation I had to put in extra effort for things would evaporate. They want to keep the lights on? I'll do the same.

I've been on the other end of this, brought in to a company, for a team to replace an older technology stack, while the existing devs continued with what was labeled as legacy. There was a lot of bad vibe.

Re: Meta is axing 600 roles across its AI division

#427
post #3

Because the AI works so well, or because it doesn't? > ”By reducing the size of our team, fewer conversations will be required to make a decision, and each person will be more load-bearing and have more scope and impact,” Wang writes in a memo seen by Axios. That's kinda wild. I'm kinda shocked they put it in writing.

My tin-foil-hat-theory is that the most valuable things many programmers do at their company is not working for a competitor.

A small team is not only more efficient, but is overall more productive.

The 100-person team produces 100 widgets a day, and the 10-person team produces 200 widgets a day.

But, if the industry becomes filled with the knowledge of how to produce 200 widgets a day with 10 people, and there are also a lot of unemployed widget makers looking for work, and the infrastructure required to produce widgets costs approximately 0 dollars, then suddenly there is no moat for the big widget making companies.

Re: Meta is axing 600 roles across its AI division

#430
post #428

What happened to the guy that got a $250m deal to join Meta for his multimodal models?

These layoffs are in FAIR, not MSL. This is basically poaching researchers over to a different department so they dont have to report to LeCun.

Given that MSL is more product oriented, lets see how it goes.

Post reply on HN