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We have good prisons in France, it's a good thing
French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence
421–430 of 561 posts
Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence
#422There is no excuse for corruption. However, everyone in all countries should ask themselves whether or not most of the representatives in their congress/parliament would, if investigated, be found guilty of the same sort of corruption. Power corrupts.
I hope Trump goes to Prison at some point
Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence
#423Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Since a few days, there is an abundance of cover and articles in most major newspaper here with propaganda and repeated lies supporting him. How much of this is driven by contrarian and counter-cyclical reporting? I’m not familiar with French media, but I see the same pattern in every country where I’ve kept up with the news: Media starts being favorable to a topic when it’s up and coming, switching to being highly…
No, it's not some kind of clickbait strategy to drive views. Driving an agenda is. Most of French media, specially newspapers, are money sinks only surviving because they are useful to push the rent-seeking business or ideological agenda of their owners (Dassault, Bouygues, Lagardere, Arnault, Bettencourt, Saade, Pinault, Niel). Also, just for context, Martin Bouygues, Bernard Arnault and Vincent Bollore, the respect…
What about Le Monde Diplomatique?
Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence
#424Earlier quoted context omitted.
I would disagree on the "most mainstream media". Clearly, all the right-wing papers that have traditionnaly supported him (Le Figaro, Match) and all the hard-right-wing papers (owned by Bolloré, Arnault, etc..) that have _personnal_ ties to him are playing their "opinion" part. I don't think public media is defending him at all. Left or Center-left papers are not (obviously.) The tie breaker would be: "what is TF1 20…
You forgot Bouygues (TF1) who was one of the witness at his wedding and godfather of one of his son.
Yes, TF1 is our right-wing news channel (non-populist), France 2 is our left-wing channel. So TF1 would widely support him.
Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence
#425Earlier quoted context omitted.
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I moved from the USA to France and your statement surprised me. Looking around for some data, I'm seeing around 4,600 French nationals who obtained U.S. permanent resident status compared to 13,000 issued to U.S. citizens by France. So about 3x more US -> France and rising. https://schengenvisainfo.com/news/number-of-americans-moving... https://www.tresor.economie.gouv.fr/Articles/8c273940-72b7-4...
On a per-capita basis there are far more people who were born in France now living in the USA than vice versa.
https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2024/07/olympics-fren...
Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence
#426[flagged]
Law doesn't seek to punish but to rehabilitate. Act of taking freedom away from the criminal is violent enough. Treating them badly is just a sign of unfair/poor society that cannot maintain (afford to keep) it's promise to be civil to all citizens.
Not entirely. There are a few different motivations for punishment: one, is to act as a deterrant (people won't do the crime because they fear the punishment. Tends to work best when people think they are likely to be caught), two is to act as a form of correction/rehabilitation: (after one punishment people are less likely to do it again. Tends to have problems when the punishment sets people up to be more likely to commit crime, by either putting them in contact with other criminals or further pushing them into desperate circumstances after the punishment), third is as a sense of justice, to some extent as revenge. The punishment of an offender can help the victims on an emotional level and also foster trust in the system (requires that the punishments are viewed as just and proportional). Lastly, in extreme cases, as a form of protection/prevention: by removing the person from being able to commit any further crimes.
Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence
#427Something really scary in France right now is that you can see really clearly how most mainstream media are used for propaganda. Since a few days, there is an abundance of cover and articles in most major newspaper here with propaganda and repeated lies supporting him. It's hard to imagine but non stop. You have everyday interviews of his family saying that it is an injustice, that he did nothing, that the judgement…
> Since a few days, there is an abundance of cover and articles in most major newspaper here with propaganda and repeated lies supporting him. How much of this is driven by contrarian and counter-cyclical reporting? I’m not familiar with French media, but I see the same pattern in every country where I’ve kept up with the news: Media starts being favorable to a topic when it’s up and coming, switching to being highly…
It's hard to imagine but they are not contrarian fueled articles. It's not the usual thing, here are only interviews of their closed one with their verbatim highlighted.
Words of support from public figures. The day before going to jail he was received at the current president office (like the french Whitehouse) the day after, the "justice minister" went to see him in jail to give him his support.
You have editorial like "Sarkozy stays honorable and magnificent despite an illegal non proof based sentence" "His wife so sad that this hero of the nation that did so much, proud father, beloved by his friends, will have to live this hard experience" All days long.
A few examples just to give one newspaper: https://x.com/Le_Figaro/status/1980589938941874341
Or "Sarkozy in jail, the fault of the justice!" https://x.com/Le_Figaro/status/1980567283157139926
And we now all know well what book "he will bring" to show how honorable is this man: "The count of Monte Cristo", "life of Jesus Christ", ...
Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence
#428Earlier quoted context omitted.
You skipped the “take responsibility”. In case of a more serious crime a simple apology is indeed not enough. But it should still be possible to proceed with something more productive for everyone than putting the perpetrator behind bars. As you say, there are many options.
Take responsibility is just a euphemism, though. For some people that is someone going behind bars. What do you actually mean?
It's not a hard and fast definition, but generally involves:
* An honest acknowledgement of ones behaviour and its impact on others.
* Accepting the consequences of your behaviour, whether legal (such as going to jail), financial, or personal.
* Taking the initiative to make amends where possible.
* Taking steps to improve oneself and/or prevent the same behaviour in future.
Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence
#429"We put all our politicians in jail as soon as they're elected." "Why?" "It saves time."
That seems to be Israel's approach for the last few decades. Well, they try, with some success even.
I really wouldn't want to get involved in anything that could be compared to what Israel do.