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Beliefs that are true for regular software but false when applied to AI

boydkane.com

421–430 of 461 posts

Re: Beliefs that are true for regular software but false when applied to AI

#421

> bad behaviour isn’t caused by any single bad piece of data, but by the combined effects of significant fractions of the dataset Related opposing data point to this statement: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45529587

Fair point. I'd nit-pick and say that "significant" doesn't necessarily mean large, but I was definitely surprised by anthropic's work

Re: Beliefs that are true for regular software but false when applied to AI

#422

I don't understand the "your boss" framing of this article, or more accurately, the title of this article. The article contents don't actually seem to have anything to do with management specifically. Is the reader is meant to believe that not being scared of AI is a characteristic of the managerial class? Is the unstated implication that there is some class warfare angle and anybody who isn't against AI is against l…

> Is the unstated implication that there is some class warfare angle and anybody who isn't against AI is against laborers? I didn't read it that way. I read "your boss" as basically meaning any non-technical person who may not understand the challenges of harnessing LLMs compared to traditional, (more) deterministic software development.

Yes, this interpretation was my intended interpretation. Although I'll admit, I think I could have been more explicit

Re: Beliefs that are true for regular software but false when applied to AI

#423
post #228

I don't understand the "your boss" framing of this article, or more accurately, the title of this article. The article contents don't actually seem to have anything to do with management specifically. Is the reader is meant to believe that not being scared of AI is a characteristic of the managerial class? Is the unstated implication that there is some class warfare angle and anybody who isn't against AI is against l…

Indeed, from reading the article I could really see any discussion of "your boss", so I changed the title to something more representative, and a condensed version of a phrase from the article.

Ah, that was you! Thanks, I actually prefer the current title.

Re: Beliefs that are true for regular software but false when applied to AI

#424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"AI will take over the world". I hear that. Then I try to use AI for simple code task, writing unit tests for a class, very similar to other unit tests. If fails miserably. Forgets to add an annotation and enters in a death loop of bullshit code generation. Generates test classes that tests failed test classes that test failed test classes and so on. Fascinating to watch. I wonder how much CO2 it generated while fryi…

Given that AI couldn't even speak English 6 years ago, do you really think it's going to struggle with unit tests for the next 20 years? It's well worth looking at https://progress.openai.com/ , here's a snippet: > human: Are you actually conscious under anesthesia? > GPT-1 (2018): i did n't . " you 're awake . > GPT-3 (2021): There is no single answer to this question since anesthesia can be administered [...]

the improvements since 2021 are minor at best. ai thus far has been trained to imitate humans by training it on text written by humans. it's unlikely that you will make something as smart as a human by training it to imitate a human. imitation is a lossy process, you lose knowledge of the "why", you only imitate the outcome. to get beyond this state, we'll need a new technique. so far we've used gradient descent to teach an ai to reproduce a function. to teach it new behaviours will probably take evolutionary approaches. this will take orders of magnitude more compute to get to the same point. so yes it could take 20 years.

Re: Beliefs that are true for regular software but false when applied to AI

#425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We should move well beyond human analogies. I have never met a human that would straight up lie about something, or build up so much deceptive tests that it might as well be lying. Granted this is not super common in these tools, but it is essentially unheard of in junior devs.

> Granted this is not super common in these tools, but it is essentially unheard of in junior devs. I wonder if it's unheard of in junior devs because they're all saints, or because they're not talented enough to get away with it?

Incentives align against lying about what you built. You'd be found out immediately. There's no "shame" button with these chatbots.

Re: Beliefs that are true for regular software but false when applied to AI

#426

> nobody knows precisely what to do to ensure an AI writes formal emails correctly or summarises text accurately. This is a bit of a hyperbole, a lot of the recent approaches rely on MoE, that are specialized. This makes it much more usuable for simple usecases.

The MoEs are not interpretable, there is no "coding expert" and "maths expert". They are specialised, but not in a way that humans understand.

Re: Beliefs that are true for regular software but false when applied to AI

#427
post #181

> In regular software, vulnerabilities are caused by mistakes in the lines of code that make up the software > in modern AI systems, vulnerabilities or bugs are usually caused by problems in the data used to train an AI In regular software, vulnerabilities are caused by lack of experience, therefor lack of proper training materials.

> vulnerabilities are caused by lack of experience

In the limit, everyone has a lack of experience (compared to their future selves). This sentence proves too much (https://slatestarcodex.com/2013/04/13/proving-too-much/)

Re: Beliefs that are true for regular software but false when applied to AI

#428

I think your post is fundamentally wrong. See, you are comparing AI responses with the written code, which may not be the fair comparison. I see it as, better you could compare code generated by AI vs the code written by an engineer.

I think you misunderstood my post? I'm comparing AI as a system vs written code as a system. Both systems can have flaws, but the way in which they fail is different. The danger comes when non-technical people try to apply intuitions about software failures to AI, because those intuitions are false when applied to AI.

Re: Beliefs that are true for regular software but false when applied to AI

#429

> It’s entirely possible that some dangerous capability is hidden in ChatGPT, but nobody’s figured out the right prompt just yet. This sounds a little dramatic. The capabilities of ChatGPT are known. It generates text and images. The qualities of the content of the generated text and images is not fully known.

> The capabilities of ChatGPT are known. It generates text and images

There's a big difference between generating text which does someone's homework and text which changes peoples opinion about the world (e.g. the r/changemyview experiment done by Meta, in which their AI was better than almost all humans (it was 99th percentile) at changing peoples view, and not a single user was able to spot it as being AI[1])

If you're disagreeing with the precise wording of "capabilities" vs "qualities of the content", then sure, use whatever words make sense to you. But I don't think that's an interesting discussion to have.

I stand by my original statement.

[1]: https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/comments/1k8b2hj/meta_...

Re: Beliefs that are true for regular software but false when applied to AI

#430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not missing? https://boydkane.com/essays/boss#every-time-you-run-the-code...

that's what I get for trying to read with a screaming kid demanding music videos in my ear.

I appreciate the humility (:
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