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German government comes out against Chat Control

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Re: German government comes out against Chat Control

#421

Post by alexey-salmin »

gambiting wrote: post #393
selfmodruntime wrote: post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Well, correct me if I'm wrong - but according to this random website I found in 5 seconds of googling: I will, because you are! Unfortunately, it's really easy because the German government applies a simple slight of hand. They call it a "gross employer contribution", which increases this band of income tax beyond the 45% you pay after the GEC. [1] It works like this: As your employer is paying your wage, amount X,…

I mean sure, but does that actually add up to over 50% of your income? Here in the UK it works exactly the same as you described, but the NI is 10% of your income - even if you are in the highest band for incomne tax(also 45%) you wouldn't get to 50% overall, maybe if you make millions a year that average would start getting close to 50% (and if you do, congrats!) And can I comment on the fact that Germany seems to b…

I don't know about Germany, but in France for 100k gross salary, the employer social contributions will be around 40k, the employee social contributions another 20.5k, then 15.5k income tax.

In the end 140k that employer pays result in less than 64k take-home salary. The real tax rate is around 54%. So, I can't verify what OP says about Germany but I can easily believe it.

You can see chatgpt calculations here (and they do match my experience): https://chatgpt.com/share/68e64456-020c-800b-8443-1a2726e9a3...

Re: German government comes out against Chat Control

#422

Post by lmf4lol »

Asmod4n wrote: post #404
lmf4lol wrote: post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

The Verfassungsschutz disagrees with you.

The Verfassungsschutz is anything but objective.

And even if: They don't at all claim that the AfD plans a "fascist takeover". I've read the whole report. Did you?

Re: German government comes out against Chat Control

#423

Post by jasonvorhe »

bluebarbet wrote: post #396
jasonvorhe wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany will not abandon chat control just like the data perseveration they're so keen on. Europe is preparing for war so they need ways to make opposition more difficult. They're just waiting for the opportune moment where the opposition to these acts won't be as organized or is distracted with something else.

There are plenty of places to post this kind of vacuous, nihilistic, unsourced conspiracism. Please, not here.

Yeah, it's getting quite obvious that HN prefers to remain within the bounds of Wikipedia, NYT/WaPo narratives. Good luck with that, I'll just refrain from commenting on these topics. It's useless anyways.

Re: German government comes out against Chat Control

#424

Post by the_gipsy »

Xelbair wrote: post #376
the_gipsy wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People that vote and support the far right do it as reaction, that is likely. But not to "extreme left nonsene" appearing. That's just a pretext. The real reason, to which they react, is that they can no longer covertly express and exercise their ideas. In other words, it's a reaction to getting publicly called out about being racist, misogynistic, homophobic, xenophobic etc.

You've made a lot of assumptions about people i know and talk with - without knowing them, exactly showcasing the problem that I've mentioned. As soon as the topic is mentioned it becomes a discussion stopper. Thank you for your contribution into proving my point.

If we were to categorize AfD voters and supporters into two groups:

  1. people that support some of: racism, xenophobia, homophobia, misogyny, anti-environmentalism, etc., i.e. authoritarianism for their group
  2. people that have been pushed by extreme leftism because they can no longer discuss alternative points of view (but do not strictly belong to group 1)
What share would you assign to each?

Re: German government comes out against Chat Control

#425

Post by numpad0 »

wizzwizz4 wrote: post #368
camillomiller wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

However, for the same reason, it's in everybody else's best interest that an organisation that might be taken over by fascists not have access to a panopticon.

I think that "everybody else" include literal fascists. Nazi's Gestapo had serious issues with Wernher von Braun to the point Hitler had to be bothered. East Germany's Stasi had more personnel per capita than Russian KGB had. They would know that a secret police in a German state isn't a great idea regardless of ideology.

Had Hitler not able to stop Gestapo from sending von Braun to a death camp, not only history of spaceflight would have been delayed by decades, but the associated reputational bonuses to postwar Germany as "genius tech nerds that made a gross mistake" had been way lower. Not having the panopticon and just keeping freedom of speech and privacy as they are removes that type of risk. No way that serious neo-Nazis wouldn't think about that.

Re: German government comes out against Chat Control

#426

Post by leshenka »

tavavex wrote: post #107
fkyoureadthedoc wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if they say no to your transmitting, you're going nowhere. > if they say no to your forgetting to scan the case of water on the bottom of your cart, you're going nowhere. > if they say no to your hacked cable box, you're going nowhere. > if they say no to your speeding, you're going nowhere. > if they say no to your weed, you're going nowhere. > if they say no to your growing a mushroom and mailing it to your frien…

In the hypothetical world that you've set out, where surveillance is so extreme and overreaching as to help finish off the entirety of the internet for good, there's no way it would stop at the internet. The goal isn't controlling this set of standards and protocols that defines just the internet, the goal is controlling communication and the internet is the #1 way of communicating between people at the moment. If pe…

> to force everyone to use unsecured communication

Treat social media as any other unsecured channel. You can do e2e on Facebook, you'll just have to do it yourself. I'm only half joking, I'm sure somebody has done this already, they just keep quiet about it.

Re: German government comes out against Chat Control

#427

Post by gambiting »

alexey-salmin wrote: post #421
gambiting wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean sure, but does that actually add up to over 50% of your income? Here in the UK it works exactly the same as you described, but the NI is 10% of your income - even if you are in the highest band for incomne tax(also 45%) you wouldn't get to 50% overall, maybe if you make millions a year that average would start getting close to 50% (and if you do, congrats!) And can I comment on the fact that Germany seems to b…

I don't know about Germany, but in France for 100k gross salary, the employer social contributions will be around 40k, the employee social contributions another 20.5k, then 15.5k income tax. In the end 140k that employer pays result in less than 64k take-home salary. The real tax rate is around 54%. So, I can't verify what OP says about Germany but I can easily believe it. You can see chatgpt calculations here (and t…

Right, but I've never met anyone who looks at it this way - this part: "the employer social contributions will be around 40k"

Is not your salary. This is what the employer has to pay to keep you. So even in your example your tax on your earnings is around 35%. The fact that the employer has to pay another 40k to keep you employed is......well, shocking, but I wouldn't say that's a tax rate on your earnings - for the simple reason that if the government reduced the employer contribution to zero it wouldn't change anything about your take home salary(unless your employer decided to be generous and give you a raise).

Re: German government comes out against Chat Control

#428

Post by bayindirh »

zahlman wrote: post #229
miohtama wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, even AfD agrees with them on this.

I don't understand why AfD would be expected to disagree here. What, just on principle, because it's CDU/CSU?

Conservatives sometimes have an interesting habit of using the freedoms to come into power and then take these freedoms away.

Re: German government comes out against Chat Control

#429

Post by WA »

sally_glance wrote: post #204
ho_schi wrote: post #145

The CDU/CSU is doing something good. That didn't happened for a long time? I appreciate it. Ausgerechnet Spahn. Manchmal glaubt man seinen Augen und Ohren nicht. Wir müssen Wachsam bleiben. Mit dem Argument das es böse Menschen gibt, wurde schon viel böses getan. Massenüberwachung zerstört jede Gesellschaft. Deutschland hat mehrfach darunter gelitten. Und die Versuche Massenüberwachung einzuführen wiederholen sich.

I'm not following. What exactly are you trying to say and how does it relate to OP?

Mr. Spahn is the minister in the video. He's a little controversial, because during COVID, he was minister of health and had to order a lot of FFP-2 masks. This order went to "friends" of him, which were clearly logistically not in the spot to handle such a volume. Furthermore, he spent A LOT of money to source way too many masks.

Here's a short teaser and links to more info: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jens_Spahn#Controversies

So, what the parent poster is saying that the controversial Spahn did the right thing for once, which comes a bit as a surprise.

Re: German government comes out against Chat Control

#430

Post by computerthings »

selfmodruntime wrote: post #330
jdiez17 wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is the legally accurate description of the AfD [1]. Just like it is legally correct to call Björn Höcke a fascist. [1] https://medienservice.sachsen.de/medien/news/1071656

While I agree with this decision, it was not made by an independent court. Courts are often stacked with politicians in Germany.

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