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Americans increasingly see legal sports betting as a bad thing for society

pewresearch.org

421–430 of 525 posts

Re: Americans increasingly see legal sports betting as a bad thing for society

#421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When you buy a stock, you're not contributing it to the company's productive use You are marginally reducing their cost of capital.

Sure, but that's pretty indirect and a far cry from "putting the money to productive use." Unless you're an early investor or IPO participant, your actual money is not being directly put to productive use by the company you are "investing" in.

Early investors and IPO participants put their money in expecting that 20 years later you would buy the stock off their hands. It feels weird to call it causation when it's traveling back in time, but in a way buying the stock contributes to investment.

Re: Americans increasingly see legal sports betting as a bad thing for society

#422
post #24

I happen to enjoy sports gambling and would be sad to see it disappear. I'm writing this because I want you to know what you're depriving me of. Because _other_ people make poor decisions, we need to take that decision away from everyone.

What an incredibly selfish attitude.

Yes. I know it's incredibly selfish to push your laws on my body because you don't have self control.

How do you sleep at night, knowing you're a nosy fascist?

Re: Americans increasingly see legal sports betting as a bad thing for society

#423

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Options markets are zero sum.

Why? Both sides could use hedging, both sides could derive economic benefits, etc.

On a per transaction level, for every dollar someone makes on a put/call option, the other person has to lose equivalent. Even more when you factor in exchange fees

Hedging is just an additional transaction that limits the damage if the bet doesn't pay off. You can do the same thing in gambling.

Re: Americans increasingly see legal sports betting as a bad thing for society

#424

The legalization and popularity of gambling is more than just an immoral activity that has negative societal effects. It’s reflective of people losing hope in the system’s ability to make their lives better. Gambling thrives in contexts where a ladder to success doesn’t exist or is perceived as not existing. If hard work or time doesn’t make your life better, then fate is just chance, and you might as well throw your…

The immoral part is the grifters, not the suckers.

Re: Americans increasingly see legal sports betting as a bad thing for society

#426

Everything is gambling . You are either gambling money or time or a combination or both to end up ahead in a particular metric that interests you However gambling time is seen as virtous and to be celebrated, whereas gambling money is the devil. At least if you lose money you can make it back, when you gamble time good luck getting back your 4 year studying for a gender studies degree. Also here on HN gambling on a s…

If I gamble by joining a startup, I am trying to provide something of value to someone. Otherwise, my startup will fail. The bet is not societally zero sum in expectation. Long odds, sure, but possibly value creating.

If I gamble on a sporting event, the outcome of the sporting event does not change. Someone wins. Someone loses. No value created. The outcome is societally zero sum in expectation.

Re: Americans increasingly see legal sports betting as a bad thing for society

#427
post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, nobody's trying to argue that gambling is by definition bad – that is to say, nobody's defining the category boundaries of "gambling" contingent on possessing the property "is bad". Some people have constrained the definition of "gambling" such that it only contains things they view as bad, and then observed that all the things they consider "gambling" are bad, but that's not the vacuous, circular claim you make…

Reread your own message. > Some people have constrained the definition of "gambling" such that it only contains things they view as bad If there is some internally consistent definition that excludes all the “good” stuff without excluding it specifically for being good, no one has shared that so far as I’ve seen. The arguments about insurance so far have been “but it’s a good thing” and “you aren’t happy when your in…

Insurances are not hedges. Hedges are „investment position[s] intended to offset potential losses or gains that may be incurred by a companion investment“ (wikipedia) of which insurances can be a part of, while in an insurance „a party agrees to compensate another party in the event of a certain loss, damage, or injury“ (wikipedia).

Absolutely not the same thing. But even so there is still an interesting insight to be gained from common parlance:

Usually we talk of a bet in a situation where you take an event that is somewhat out of your control and irrelevant for your wellbeing and intentionally and actively make some kind of material outcome for yourself depend on it. In so far speculation at stock markets is „gambly“, you are right about that. And if you have measures in place that hedge the risks of those speculations you might be tempted to very loosely call those your insurance.

If you look however at how the term insurance is typically used you can see a difference there: you insure against risks that are non-avoidable risks of your daily life or business. You do not intentionally and actively enter the cancer-lottery. And you do not actively take measures to win your „health-insurance-bet“ because the outcome is still considered catastrophic, even in case of „winning“ it.

And the way people tend to see things more as insurance vs. bets follows exactly these lines: is it about mitigating a devastating natural risk that is hard or impossible to avoid 100% or is it about something where you actively and intentionally attach your wellbeing to a random event. (We could separate this out in two questions: do you involve yourself actively and intentionally; and: is the outcome that you bet on inherently against your intrinsic interests. But that is a detail that I don‘t think we need to go into)

I think this explains the common parlance quite well: health-insurance: the risk is unavoidable, you do not willfully enter some kind of cancer-lottery on whose outcome you bet. Also you have an intrinsic interest in not „winning“ said „cancer-lottery“. -> no doubt it is insurance.

Legal expenses insurance: risks depend largely on your behaviour but you usually still have an intrinsic interest not having to use it. -> some people might see this as more gambling- or “bet-“ adjacent.

Speculating on one stock and hedging that bet. -> Totally not an insurance. Also not something insurances do. An insurance might be part of your hedge (maybe insurance of freight against loss) but insurers typically do not insure bets. Which makes sense, since part of their business-model is that the customer has an intrinsic interest that the payout case does not occur.

Re: Americans increasingly see legal sports betting as a bad thing for society

#428
post #29
post #24

I happen to enjoy sports gambling and would be sad to see it disappear. I'm writing this because I want you to know what you're depriving me of. Because _other_ people make poor decisions, we need to take that decision away from everyone.

This is just the same social contract you agree to in every part of your life. Why can't you legally drive over 100 mph when you know you'd do it safely? Why can't you own certain kinds of weapons when you know you don't want to kill anyone or yourself? Gamblers going bankrupt is bad for all of us because they often have families and creditors who are harmed by the loss of the money, and the rest of us pay the price…

I just don't think those are good analogies.

For one, we are just discussing financial ruin. Not deaths by guns or cars. And it does not impact you. Or else you would need to just regulate poor spending habits. At worse.

I think in principle just about everyone agrees in freedom and liberty where it does not affect society. We usually disagree just about what constitutes 'affecting others'.

Re: Americans increasingly see legal sports betting as a bad thing for society

#429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. What a high level professional gambler is doing is hard work. Hard work doesn't make you rich, but it's part of the things that you need to prosper. I'm no inspirational poster child, but hard work, building a network, doing good things for people were all essential to my long term success. I didn't have the benefit of familial connections, but that helps too. There's a saying that you make your own luck,…

I agree that hard work is often a pre-requisite for being successful, but it is not key to being successful by any means. Like I wouldn't agree with your definition because most people wouldn't claim that, say, getting into bitcoin early and then working like 10 hours a week max trading and setting up mining rigs is "hard work," even if it made some people extremely wealthy, just because they got on the trend early.

That’s fair, you make a good point.

I guess people win the lottery too. Life is complex, there’s no one answer. And tbh, if I reflect on my own life, my comp is much higher than it has ever been, my peeps are very happy, and I’m not grinding by any means.

Re: Americans increasingly see legal sports betting as a bad thing for society

#430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gambling encourages and creates bad behavior. I got to hang out at a local state-licensed casino for a few nights due to a work obligation. Try it some time and people watch. At best, there's groups of people having a good time. Usually they seemed to be associated with music or convention activity. Mostly, it's depressing, with old people blowing their pensions on stupid slot machines. At worst, there's really obvio…

What are the 13yos doing? Is there some fake-money sports betting platform or are they able to burn real money on it?

There’s one called Stadiumlive. Several are out there.

At least one kid I know has a Sportsbook app on his phone setup by his parents.

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