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How the AI Bubble Will Pop

derekthompson.org

421–430 of 531 posts

Re: How the AI Bubble Will Pop

#421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I follow over 100 podcasts How? Do you read summaries? Listen at 3x speed 5 hours a day?

Boredom at work like most people on HN

Different kind of work for me st least. If I'm not at a desk coding I'm often out working on a farm. You have plenty of time for podcasts while cutting fields.

Re: How the AI Bubble Will Pop

#422
post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an odd anecdote to ask "show your work." I don't catalog shows and episodes where any particular topic comes up, and I follow over 100 podcasts so I don't have a specific list you can fact check me on. Personally I could care less if that means you choose not to believe that I hear the Taiwan risk come up often enough.

Charitably, perhaps they're simply asking for podcasts that they would be interested in listening to that cover these topics. Personally, I would like to listen to a podcast that talks about semiconductor development, but I've done approximately zero research to find them so I'm not pressed for an answer :)

Fair enough! I may have read too far into the comment I replied to above.

Re: How the AI Bubble Will Pop

#423

I keep seeing articles like this but does anyone actually think we're not in a bubble? From what I've seen these companies acknowledge it's a bubble and that they're overspending without a way to make the money back. They're doing it because they have the money and feel it's worth the risk in case it pays off. If they don't spend, another company does, and it hits big they will be left behind. This is at least insura…

I think we are in a bubble, which will burst at some point, AI stocks will crash and many will burn, and the growth will resume. Just like the dotcom bubble definitely was a bubble, but it was the foundation of all tech giants of today.

The trouble with bubbles is that it's not enough to know you are in one. You don't know when it will pop, at what level, and how far back it will go.

Re: How the AI Bubble Will Pop

#424

I keep seeing articles like this but does anyone actually think we're not in a bubble? From what I've seen these companies acknowledge it's a bubble and that they're overspending without a way to make the money back. They're doing it because they have the money and feel it's worth the risk in case it pays off. If they don't spend, another company does, and it hits big they will be left behind. This is at least insura…

HN isn't always right. There was massive pushback against self driving and practically everyone was saying it would fail and is a bubble. The level of confidence people had about this opinion was through the roof. Like people who didn't know anything would say it with such utter confidence it would piss me off a bit. Like how do you know? Well they didn't and they were utterly wrong. Waymo showed it's not a bubble. A…

Autonomous cars did have a bubble moment. They were hyped and didn't deliver on the promises. We still don't have level 5 and consumer vehicles are up to level 3. It doesn't mean it's not a useful or cool technology.

All great tech has gone through some kind of hype/bubble stage.

Re: How the AI Bubble Will Pop

#425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes they'll be cheaper to run, but will they be cheaper buy as a service? Because sooner or later these companies will be expected to produce eye-watering ROI to justify the risk of these moonshot investments and they won't be doing that by selling at cost.

Will they be cheaper to buy? Yes. You are effectively just buying compute with AI. From a simple correlational extrapolation compute has only gotten more cheaper over time. Massively so actually. From a more reasoned causal extrapolation hardware companies historically compete to bring the price of compute down. For AI this is extremely aggressive I might add. HotChips 2024 and 2025 had so much AI coverage. Nvidia is…

You don't seriously believe that last few years have been sustainable? The market is in a bubble, companies are falling over themselves offering clinically insane deals and taking enormous losses to build market share (people are allowed to spend ten(s) of thousands of dollars in credits on their $200/mo subscriptions with no realistic expectation of customer loyalty).

What happens when investors start demanding their moonshot returns?

They didn't invest trillions to provide you with a service at break-even prices for the next 20 years. They'll want to 100x their investment, how do you think they're going to do that?

Re: How the AI Bubble Will Pop

#426
post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

he’s describing conditions that exist for every area in the world that actually experiences winter!

Most places clear the driving surface instead of leaving a foot of snow.

Eventually. I live in Minnesota and it can take until noon or later after a big snow for all the small roads to get cleared.

Re: How the AI Bubble Will Pop

#427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again, this is not an argument. I am asking: Why do we assume that we know better and people with far more knowledge and insight would all be wrong? This is not rhetorical question, I am not looking for a rhetorical answer. What is every important decision maker at all these companies missing? The point is not that they could not all be wrong, they absolutely could. The point is: Make a good argument. Being a general…

I think you have a point and I'm not sure I entirely disagree with you, so take this as lighthearted banter, but: Coming from the opposite angle, what makes you think these folks have a habit of being right? VCs are notoriously making lots of parallel bets hoping one pays off. Companies fail all the time, either completely (eg Yahoo! getting bought for peanuts down from their peak valuation), or at initiatives small…

The universe is not configured in such a way that trillion dollar companies come into existence without a lot of things going well over long periods of time, so if we accept money as the standard for being right, they are necessarily right, a lot.

Everything ends and companies are no exception. But thinking about the biggest threats is what people in managerial positions in companies do all day, every day. Let's also give some credit to meritocracy and assume that they got into those positions because they are not super bad at their jobs, on average.

So unless you are very specific about the shape of the threat and provide ideas and numbers beyond what is obvious (because those will have been considered), I think it's unlikely and therefor unreasonable to assume that a bystanders evaluation of the situation trumps the judgement of the people making these decisions for a living with all the additional resources and information at any given point.

Here's another way to look at this: Imagine a curious bystander were to judge decisions that you make at your job, while having only partial access to the information that you have to do the job, that you do every day for years. Will this person at some point be right, if we repeat this process often enough? Absolutely. But is it likely, on any single instance? I think not.

Re: How the AI Bubble Will Pop

#428

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is another example of the phenomenon they’re describing, not a counterexample.

...The post I replied to specifically said "It [questioning people's self-evaluation of productivity] is only asked by LLM skeptics, about LLMs". Naming another example outside of LLM skeptics asking it, about LLMs, is inherently a counterexample.

Wow you're completely right and I just completely forgot who you were replying to. I thought you were replying to the person the person you were actually replying to was replying to. Sorry about both my mistake and my previous sentence's convolution!

Re: How the AI Bubble Will Pop

#429

I'm trying to pinpoint the canary in the financial coal mine here. There will be a time to pull out of the market and I really want to have an idea of when. I know, timing the market, but this isn't some small market correction we're talking about here.

this is a bit hackneyed but it's true: time in the market > timing the market

now obviously, if you do time the market perfectly, that's the best. but it is far far more likely to shoot yourself in the foot by trying

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