Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Oxford loses top 3 university ranking in the UK

hotminute.co.uk

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

421–430 of 446 posts

Re: Oxford loses top 3 university ranking in the UK

#421

Post by Halan »

twixfel wrote: post #180
Halan wrote: post #117

It doesn’t matter. UK education is flawed already by the time a student reach tertiary. A levels leave such a gap in people that I would go as far as adding it to the reasons for the country issues. People in the UK, even if they study at Oxford, are likely more ignorant than many Europeans having done classical studies in high school.

The UK system ranks a fair bit above the antiquated German system, you should be aware that there are 3 types of schools, with only one that teaches Latin etc., and the other two of them are considered shit, one German even told me that if you go to the lowest level of secondary school, your best bet is to just kill yourself. But it's certainly neat meeting lots of young Germans who studied Latin in school but nevert…

Ask anyone from French, Spain, Italy, Greece, etc. living in London and in tech if they believe their British peers are their equals intellectually.

There is a reason why these people dominate the top 1% jobs in tech in London.

I am flattered you read my bio but I don’t actually live in Germany lol

Re: Oxford loses top 3 university ranking in the UK

#422

Post by vzaliva »

zipy124 wrote: post #312
vzaliva wrote: post #140

Be cautious with university rankings. Universities can be assessed by research, student satisfaction, teaching quality, cost, accessibility, or by specific fields. Some excel in computer science, others in medicine or the humanities. A single overall ranking is therefore meaningless - look instead for the measure that matches your priorities. For instance, for research impact in computer science, see: https://csranki…

This website massively skews towards publication count, e.g research quantity over quality. Vastly flawed.

Not true. It quantifies publications in top conferences. These are highly competitive, and you cannot just publish any junk there. If the site were to measure ANY publications, then it would be indeed skewed, as you suggested.

Re: Oxford loses top 3 university ranking in the UK

#423

Post by twixfel »

Halan wrote: post #421
twixfel wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UK system ranks a fair bit above the antiquated German system, you should be aware that there are 3 types of schools, with only one that teaches Latin etc., and the other two of them are considered shit, one German even told me that if you go to the lowest level of secondary school, your best bet is to just kill yourself. But it's certainly neat meeting lots of young Germans who studied Latin in school but nevert…

Ask anyone from French, Spain, Italy, Greece, etc. living in London and in tech if they believe their British peers are their equals intellectually. There is a reason why these people dominate the top 1% jobs in tech in London. I am flattered you read my bio but I don’t actually live in Germany lol

I suppose you must simply have a planet-sized chip on your shoulder in that case.

Terribly sorry a British woman broke your heart, or whatever it was that someone did to you. All the best.

Re: Oxford loses top 3 university ranking in the UK

#424

Post by Halan »

twixfel wrote: post #423
Halan wrote: post #421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ask anyone from French, Spain, Italy, Greece, etc. living in London and in tech if they believe their British peers are their equals intellectually. There is a reason why these people dominate the top 1% jobs in tech in London. I am flattered you read my bio but I don’t actually live in Germany lol

I suppose you must simply have a planet-sized chip on your shoulder in that case. Terribly sorry a British woman broke your heart, or whatever it was that someone did to you. All the best.

Then explain why people from southern Europe who can stomach English weather can come to London with a 2:1 degree or lower bachelor degree, speaking a language that its not theirs and compete on the job market with people with a 1st degree from a brick lane university?

Also those people don’t say full fat coke referring to a regular coke because they did biology instead of just math and physics from 15 years old and don’t have £80k of student loan to repay.

UK is suffering from the education it offers its people.

This is apparent in the law system having to be super simple to be understood to a point that it is not fair. For example, the £100k treshold for child benefits that is per person instead of per family income because people would struggle to follow it.

There are many examples to this. I wish all British people would speak another language properly and spend some time in continental Europe instead of comparing themselves to USA on matters of education and welfare.

Re: Oxford loses top 3 university ranking in the UK

#425

Post by twixfel »

Halan wrote: post #424
twixfel wrote: post #423

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suppose you must simply have a planet-sized chip on your shoulder in that case. Terribly sorry a British woman broke your heart, or whatever it was that someone did to you. All the best.

Then explain why people from southern Europe who can stomach English weather can come to London with a 2:1 degree or lower bachelor degree, speaking a language that its not theirs and compete on the job market with people with a 1st degree from a brick lane university? Also those people don’t say full fat coke referring to a regular coke because they did biology instead of just math and physics from 15 years old and…

What is there to explain? Your examples make no sense, aren't even bad things, or are purely anecdotal. For example, that smart people from Southern Europe can move to London and thrive is something Britain can be proud of. There certainly aren't any immigrants moving to any continental European countries and getting the top jobs, they're invariably reserved for the locals. The fat coke thing is nonsense, it's just a turn of phrase, that you never came to understand that says more about you than anyone else. Having a shit tax system like the household vs personal income thing is nothing unique to Britain. And if Britain was so uniquely poorly governed, the continental countries would be wildly better governed, but they're not. Some are, some aren't.

Anyway I don't know what happened to you in the UK but I'm sorry that it did.

Re: Oxford loses top 3 university ranking in the UK

#426

Post by oh_fiddlesticks »

asib wrote: post #245
concernedParty wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a growing number of parents who, because of this exact overt and known discrimination against applicants from private schools, will first send their kids to elite private primary schools and then they switch them to the best secondary state schools they can find, using the money to supplement their education with private one-to-one tutors. This is an entirely expected outcome. Water will find a way to ground…

Doesn’t this prove the reason for the existence of the disparity? The wealthy kid’s parents want tutors to supplement the education they get from their state school. I understand an argument saying people will game this setup, but arguing that state school kids are not disadvantaged is indefensible, in my opinion

There is absolutely a disparity between private and state teaching quality.

I don't think thats an objectionable statement.

Also, while not wanting to paint with a broad brush, people I know who work in state run schools are aware of how many other challenges students must face when they're on school grounds. They're fighting more than the test criteria, they're fighting their peers, outside criminal influences, prostitution, drug dealing etc etc.

Meanwhile this stuff is rarer and more swiftly dealt with at private schools because the parents won't have it, and they pay the bills and have some leverage, the financial incentives are different in the model and it shows.

I personally don't have a problem with loosening the grade criteria, even if it's gamed, the candidates are all interviewed anyway, it's not like a free pass, more an opportunity.

Re: Oxford loses top 3 university ranking in the UK

#427

Post by cauch »

rayiner wrote: post #336
cauch wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is strange to pretend that there is no cultural bias and then given an example that is usually explained because Asians seem to culturally value more education than white British. How will you explain that Asians outperform white British otherwise, knowing that the idea that Asians and white British are genetically different enough to explain this has been scientifically debunked, or that adopted Asians don't show…

I’m talking about the supposed cultural bias of the test itself, not cultural differences among test takers. A culturally biased test is one that requires familiarity with a particular culture, generally that of the people who wrote the test. If Asians do better on a test developed by British people, that suggests that the test itself is not culturally biased.

Your argument would have been more convincing if the Asians were getting the same as British people. But as soon as the Asians do better, it means that the whole comparison is meaningless. It means that Asians and British scores differently. Maybe Asians normally should score 14 and British score 10, but they score 12 because the test is culturally biased.

(sure, we expect that a small difference in "normal situation" should be relatively small, but the samples are defined as biased, so you cannot really rely on them unless making unproven assumptions)

Re: Oxford loses top 3 university ranking in the UK

#428

Post by cauch »

yodsanklai wrote: post #344
cauch wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It misses the point: if you split the universe in two identical parallel universe, but then take the same individual and in one universe train them 2h per week, and in the other universe, train them 8h per week, do you really think, whatever the test is, the second one will not perform better? This is the point of training: the more training you have access to, the better you do. If it was not the case, then the noti…

Yes, more training will invariably give better outcome for a given individual. But some people are just incredibly more talented than others due to genetics alone. If you want to build an elite sport team, I don't think you want to artificially put less athletic kids for the reason they had to work harder. I think the question is why do we need elite higher education at all. Maybe we don't. In my view, we want to fun…

That's the point: people with more training that reach high grade are LESS GOOD than people with low training that reach lower grade.

You are saying that you don't want less athletic kids being accepted artificially. That's exactly the point: the score does not correspond to the talent, you have to correct for it: to compare 2 persons on their merit if they have had different training, you need to calibrate to get a variable that correspond to the merit.

Re: Oxford loses top 3 university ranking in the UK

#429

Post by Halan »

twixfel wrote: post #425
Halan wrote: post #424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then explain why people from southern Europe who can stomach English weather can come to London with a 2:1 degree or lower bachelor degree, speaking a language that its not theirs and compete on the job market with people with a 1st degree from a brick lane university? Also those people don’t say full fat coke referring to a regular coke because they did biology instead of just math and physics from 15 years old and…

What is there to explain? Your examples make no sense, aren't even bad things, or are purely anecdotal. For example, that smart people from Southern Europe can move to London and thrive is something Britain can be proud of. There certainly aren't any immigrants moving to any continental European countries and getting the top jobs, they're invariably reserved for the locals. The fat coke thing is nonsense, it's just a…

I am just in the 1% top UK earners working 25 hours a week from the comfort of my sofa with my average European education, broken English and working class background.

I feel shame for how easy was for me to get a great life in this country when most locals struggle with social mobility.

I get that full fat coke is an idiomatic phrase but it stems from honest ignorance towards macronutrients. I am a diabetic type 1, I had to explain that carbohydrates and alcohol can affect your blood like sugar to endless British people lol

Please, if you are monolingual and monoculture, just have some healthy skepticism about well eradicated habits in this society. That’s what I want to inspire in my friends

I lived here for over 20 years. Speak other two languages natively because my parents were from two different European countries. This is an informed opinion not hearsay!

Re: Oxford loses top 3 university ranking in the UK

#430

Post by neilv »

neilv wrote: post #331
dan-robertson wrote: post #84

When I was a student, no one would seriously say they had a ‘doxbridge education’ for the same reason that saying you went to an ‘Ivy League school’ meant you went to a shit one like Brown (idk about the US rankings tbh; basing that on a Lisa Simpson nightmare). That’s still obviously true today. I expect new hires at my employer and our competitors to continue mostly coming largely from Oxford and Cambridge (plus to…

> basing that on a Lisa Simpson nightmare https://quahog.org/FactsFolklore/Trivia/Limelight/TV/The_Sim... > Brown ('81) alumnus and Simpson's writer Ian Maxtone-Graham takes credit for chosing his alma mater as Lisa's less-than-top choice: "I chose Brown because I went there, and I felt like the school could take a joke,"

Incidentally, from what I saw of undergrads at Brown University, I think Lisa Simpson would've fit right in. I mean that as a compliment to both.
Post reply on HN