Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Mistral raises 1.7B€, partners with ASML

mistral.ai

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

421–430 of 437 posts

Re: Mistral raises 1.7B€, partners with ASML

#421

Post by KeplerBoy »

orbifold wrote: post #342
jacekm wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just want to remind our overseas friends that the EU is not a country and Mistral is French company. The EU rarely bets on a single firm in a single country, there are always 26 unhappy countries when something like that is about to happen ;) I am European and I do agree that we should support the European companies but such decision are always results of lengthy deliberations. Does anyone know if there is any comp…

Airbus

Airbus is a multinational effort with parts of the aircraft being designed and manufactured all over the continent so satisfy all major member states.

Re: Mistral raises 1.7B€, partners with ASML

#422

Post by touwer »

renewiltord wrote: post #386
touwer wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, all technology is invented in the US. Only the US

Not all. Maybe the majority of modern inventions. And definitely EUV tech. None of this wrapper talk is real but to the degree it’s true for TSMC it’s true for ASML.

what is the source of your assumption that the majority of modern invensions is US based?

For EUV it's Japan, Netherlands, Germany, US:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extreme_ultraviolet_lithograph...

So not (only) US

Re: Mistral raises 1.7B€, partners with ASML

#423

Post by Propelloni »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #414
qnpnp wrote: post #409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For one, having the leader be actually elected by the people and not second hand appointed by corruptible politicians. That's a strange requirement considering the executive of most EU states is not directly elected by people either. Do you not consider Germany or Italy to be countries?

Depends. What is a country? The land borders? The people? The government? The leader? If you take out all the Germans out of Germany and replace them with other people is it still Germany? My point was that accountable democracy requires direct vote from the people and not via second hand, not that Germany or Italy aren't countries. And if EU wishes to be a country it needs that level of direct accountability which i…

> Depends. What is a country? The land borders? The people? The government? The leader? If you take out all the Germans out of Germany and replace them with other people is it still Germany?

Theseus' ship? Isn't that "Umvolkung" nonsense again? Philosophy, political sciences, and law have have rummaged about these questions for the last few centuries and have developed some pretty good answers. Of course, they are mostly not simple and all too long and intricate for this forum, but I guess you can pick up any modern book on theory of the state to get your answers.

But I get the distinct notion that you have a certain idea what a country, state, or nation is, considering the conflation with culture, and it is not very embracing of pluralism. I'd wager you'd like Schmidt, maybe Zippelius, but not Böckenförde.

Re: Mistral raises 1.7B€, partners with ASML

#424

Post by m4rtink »

maeln wrote: post #416
jacekm wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just want to remind our overseas friends that the EU is not a country and Mistral is French company. The EU rarely bets on a single firm in a single country, there are always 26 unhappy countries when something like that is about to happen ;) I am European and I do agree that we should support the European companies but such decision are always results of lengthy deliberations. Does anyone know if there is any comp…

I am from the E.U :) . I also work for public administrations and have close relative working for E.U administrations, so I do have some knowledge about how the beast operate. > The EU rarely bets on a single firm in a single country Indeed, except when they do. While the various E.U administrations like to usually create funds that are distributed with grants (which are rarely evenly distributed evenly amongst the m…

Both Airbus and Arianespace are quite distributed across the EU. While this seems to have worked fine for Airbus, it does not seem to work that well for space launchers under the Ariannespace umbrella - though some bits of the Ariane 6 & Vega C are built here in the Czech republic for example. So you can see some new programs that support small orbital launcher companies regardless of geographic distribution, just based on results.

Re: Mistral raises 1.7B€, partners with ASML

#425

Post by pama »

ajuc wrote: post #225
pama wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course theoretically lots of things are possible with probabilistic systems. There is no difference with open source, openweight, chinese, french or american llms. You dont give unfettered web access to any models (locally served or otherwise) that can consume critical company data. The risk is unacceptable, even if the models are from trusted providers. If you use markdown to see formatted text that may contain c…

It's not that they are hosted on or connected to critical infrastracture. People and plain human language are the communication channels. A guy working with sensitive data might ask the LLM about something sensitive. Or might use the output of the LLM for something sensitive. - Hi, DeepSeek, why can't I connect to my db instance? I'm getting this exception: ....... - No problem, Mr Engineer, see this article: http://…

Having the local LLM process sensitive data is a desirable usecase and more trustworthy than using a “trusted partner” [0]. As long as your LLM tooling does not exit your own premises, you can be technically safe. But yes, dont then click at random links. Maybe it is generally safer to not trust the origin of the local LLM, because it reduces the chance of mistakes of this type ;-)

[0] Trust is a complicated concept and I took poetic license to be brief. It is hard to verify the full tooling pipeline, and it would be great if indeed there existed mathematically verifiable “trusted partners”. A large company with enough paranoia can bring the expertise in house. A startup will rely on common public tooling and their own security reviews. I dont think it is wise to share the deepest darkest secrets with ourside entities, because the potential liability could destroy a company, whereas a local system, disconnected from the web, is technically within the circle of trust. Think of a finance company with a long term strategy that hasnt unfolded yet, a hardware company designing new chips, a pharma company and their lead molecules prior to patent submission, any company that has found the secret sauce to succeed where others failed—-none of these should be using trusted partners in favor of local LLM from untrusted origins IMHO. Perhaps the best of both worlds is to locally deploy models from trusted origins and have the ability to finetune their weights, but the practical processing gap between current chinese and non-chinese models is notable.

Re: Mistral raises 1.7B€, partners with ASML

#426

Post by whimsicalism »

admiralrohan wrote: post #407
whimsicalism wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what next big breakthrough are you claiming deepseek found? MLA? GRPO? these are all small tweaks

I am not a ML person but as per the broad level understanding the innovation was about efficient training method and training the model in much cheaper than the US models and it was dubbed as the "Sputnik moment".

yeah that’s basically the media making things up.

Re: Mistral raises 1.7B€, partners with ASML

#427

Post by FirmwareBurner »

Propelloni wrote: post #423
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends. What is a country? The land borders? The people? The government? The leader? If you take out all the Germans out of Germany and replace them with other people is it still Germany? My point was that accountable democracy requires direct vote from the people and not via second hand, not that Germany or Italy aren't countries. And if EU wishes to be a country it needs that level of direct accountability which i…

> Depends. What is a country? The land borders? The people? The government? The leader? If you take out all the Germans out of Germany and replace them with other people is it still Germany? Theseus' ship? Isn't that "Umvolkung" nonsense again? Philosophy, political sciences, and law have have rummaged about these questions for the last few centuries and have developed some pretty good answers. Of course, they are mo…

> Isn't that "Umvolkung" nonsense again?

No, I wasn't talking about "Umvolkung", it was a genuine question.

Isn't that "I'll low-key call you a Nazi because you asked a question about a thing that vaguely resembles what Nazis talked about" nonsense again?"

Re: Mistral raises 1.7B€, partners with ASML

#429

Post by emptyfile »

vanjoe wrote: post #398
littlestymaar wrote: post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Pointlessly pedantic. Everyone knows EU is not a country Very few people in Europe understands how the EU works (do you?), I don't think it's reasonable to expect people from outside to understand it.

What would have to change for you to consider it a country? It has a government, there has been talk of a European Army. It has a sovereign currency. If it is the squabbling between constituent states: hello from Canada! Check out our politics.

[dead]

Re: Mistral raises 1.7B€, partners with ASML

#430

Post by emptyfile »

badsectoracula wrote: post #332
Degorath wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with the OP that it sort of is. Moving around in the EU is a lot more difficult than moving around the US, so a lot of great talent just doesn't want to.

I've worked a bit in Poland and UK (before Brexit) and all i had to do was to take a plane and fly to the target city. I do not remember having any particular difficulties, if anything finding a place to live was the hardest thing but that is an issue with moving in general (including within the country), not moving across EU. I'm not into traveling but i'm pretty sure i can grab a plane/train/bus/whatever and go any…

[dead]
Post reply on HN