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Kenvue stock drops on report RFK Jr will link autism to Tylenol during pregnancy

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Re: Kenvue stock drops on report RFK Jr will link autism to Tylenol during pregnancy

#421

Post by throwuxiytayq »

flakeoil wrote: post #416
WarOnPrivacy wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Since autism is hereditary, there is a significant chance that these mothers are autistic too. Yep. Two of my 5 are clearly HFA (1 diagnosed) and another shows strong indications. My wife and I have numerous family members that are somewhere on the spectrum. It's how this works.

How can one know it is due to DNA or how the brain works versus learned behaviour? I suppose it is possible to learn different traits and behaviour from parents so that the offspring behave in an autistic way even if they are not "physically" autistic.

Heritability can be studied, you know.

Re: Kenvue stock drops on report RFK Jr will link autism to Tylenol during pregnancy

#422

Post by kelipso »

throwuxiytayq wrote: post #421
flakeoil wrote: post #416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can one know it is due to DNA or how the brain works versus learned behaviour? I suppose it is possible to learn different traits and behaviour from parents so that the offspring behave in an autistic way even if they are not "physically" autistic.

Heritability can be studied, you know.

It's actually very difficult to prove that something is genetically heritable vs heritable through other means including diet, medicines, etc. Especially when you want to account for effects in the womb, where you can't do twin studies. Even things like height and IQ, it's not clear how the heritability is passed on, much less something as complicated as high functioning autism.

Re: Kenvue stock drops on report RFK Jr will link autism to Tylenol during pregnancy

#423

Post by kelipso »

jamedjo wrote: post #332
hbcondo714 wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Since autism is hereditary Do you have a scientific source for this?

Twin studies are a classic demonstration of this: comparing identical twins to non-identical twins lets us prove a genetic component. https://www.open.edu/openlearn/mod/oucontent/view.php?id=669...

You cannot do twin studies for effects in the womb. It's the same womb!

Re: Kenvue stock drops on report RFK Jr will link autism to Tylenol during pregnancy

#425

Post by jalapenos »

johnisgood wrote: post #167
docstryder wrote: post #75

It is the safest painkiller currently available. Ibuprofen can cause gut bleeding and renal issues if overdosed on. We all know about opiates. Some facts - typical adult dose is 1g. Max suggested cap on the drug label is 3g per day (about 6 pills at usual 500mg dose). You need to take 10g (20 pills) to be at real risk of hepatotoxicity. So 10 times the typical dose is when you have overdose effects. (basically 20 pil…

> We all know about opiates No, I do not think we do, because it causes none of the side-effects associated with NSAIDs, and it is even safer than acetaminophen, i.e. there is no risk of hepatotoxicity whatsoever. The only side-effect is euphoria. Please do not mention respiratory depression here, that is a non-issue, it matters as so much as liver failure matters with acetaminophen overdoses. Opiates are safer than…

Possible that this is an elaborate defence of an addict - addiction being the known major problem with them?

Re: Kenvue stock drops on report RFK Jr will link autism to Tylenol during pregnancy

#426

Post by jalapenos »

johnisgood wrote: post #189
davidw wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And nausea. Yuck.

Some people have it. Some do not. I have taken very large amounts of opiates before and I have never ever experienced nausea from them. I think you are not likely to experience it at lower doses from say, codeine or hydrocodone either, but honestly, it varies by individuals. It would suck if I experienced nausea, and it would equally suck if I experienced euphoria from opiates, because I have an addictive personality…

> I have taken very large amounts of opiates before

> I have an addictive personality

I take it this means: "I was a heroin junkie"?

Re: Kenvue stock drops on report RFK Jr will link autism to Tylenol during pregnancy

#427

Post by vel0city »

johnisgood wrote: post #261
jrflowers wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh I know that you’re correct, your phrasing was just hilarious. Under the caveats of a competent physician and a completely med-compliant patient, opiates are perfectly safe. Those are enormous caveats though, given the history and prevalence of incompetent physicians and noncompliant patients (at least in the US). Generally if you see someone complaining about opiates being dangerous, they’re likely factoring in op…

> Oh I know that you’re correct, your phrasing was just hilarious. My bad. :P But yeah, I agree. Eastern Europe is on the other spectrum with regarding to opiates. They do not even get prescribed codeine, regardless of severity of pain. You will get naproxen instead along with a possible stroke. :D > context of society I would hope so. According to my experiences here on HN, they (some people) just decided opiates ar…

Acetaminophen related deaths are a few hundred a year in the US.

Opiate related deaths in the US have been around 50,000+/yr.

I don't personally know anyone who has died from acetaminophen usage or even particularly injured. I personally know several people who had their lives nearly destroyed by opiate abuse, and a few others who have died. And it's not like I'm hanging out with junkies all the time.

Re: Kenvue stock drops on report RFK Jr will link autism to Tylenol during pregnancy

#428

Post by wpm »

Izkata wrote: post #310
CogitoCogito wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The irony is that if Tylenol use in pregnancy actually does increase the risk of autism, RFK's destruction of trust in the government's scientific process will probably just push that sort result back. He's a charlatan and totally unscientific regardless. Luckily for those of us who care, there are private and foreign government organizations who still take healthcare and science seriously. Unfortunately the only san…

You're forgetting that for half the country that trust was destroyed years ago, and RFK actually being aware of and wanting to investigate evidence like this is restoring it.

Their trust was destroyed by Dr. Oz and Facebook posts.

Mine was destroyed after they caused a walkout at the CDC.

We are not the same

Re: Kenvue stock drops on report RFK Jr will link autism to Tylenol during pregnancy

#429

Post by throwuxiytayq »

kelipso wrote: post #422
throwuxiytayq wrote: post #421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heritability can be studied, you know.

It's actually very difficult to prove that something is genetically heritable vs heritable through other means including diet, medicines, etc. Especially when you want to account for effects in the womb, where you can't do twin studies. Even things like height and IQ, it's not clear how the heritability is passed on, much less something as complicated as high functioning autism.

Science is difficult, yes. Otherwise, no. We know a lot and with high certainty.

I think it’s harmful to pretend that reality is inscrutable and that science struggles to give answers. It’s fuel for the RFK Jr type of societal parasite.

Re: Kenvue stock drops on report RFK Jr will link autism to Tylenol during pregnancy

#430

Post by mindslight »

water-data-dude wrote: post #198
johnisgood wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We all know about opiates No, I do not think we do, because it causes none of the side-effects associated with NSAIDs, and it is even safer than acetaminophen, i.e. there is no risk of hepatotoxicity whatsoever. The only side-effect is euphoria. Please do not mention respiratory depression here, that is a non-issue, it matters as so much as liver failure matters with acetaminophen overdoses. Opiates are safer than…

"...the problem is with impure products and people misusing / abusing them." That second part "people misusing/abusing them" is a lot bigger than you're letting on. People can get hooked on opiates easily - a quick trip to Wikipedia turns up: "Long-term opioid use occurs in about 4% of people following their use for trauma or surgery-related pain" [1]. That's a pretty big knock-on effect! If you're prescribed opiates…

When I had my wisdom teeth out, they gave me percocet (oxycodone + tylenol). "Take one every 4-6 hours." I split the pills in half and took one just as the pain was starting to come back, generally right after 2 hours. It worked great. Then after several days the pain started coming back in my knees and other joints. Wait... I don't generally have joint pain. I guess that's withdrawal from developing a tolerance, aka addiction. I quickly ramped down and stopped using them shortly thereafter.

Of course it would be tempting to wax poetic about how I just needed to use my willpower to stop, and so can anyone else - just-world-fallacy while singing my own praises. But it's more honest to admit that while things worked out fine that time, control can be quite illusory. I wouldn't hesitate to use opiates again for extreme pain, but I sure would set up some social accountability systems beforehand.

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