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Temporary suspension of acceptance of mail to the United States

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Re: Temporary suspension of acceptance of mail to the United States

#421

Post by donkeybeer »

ericmay wrote: post #413
mlyle wrote: post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and more consolidation into Wal-Mart scale corporations. I think this has more to do with the effective abandonment of antitrust mechanisms. > Raising the prices of those goods makes artisan products more cost competitive. Look, I don't want an artisan UART board, and I don't think that my programs can ever afford "artisan UARTs." I'll just give up teaching this stuff to students instead.

I don't know what you mean by artisan UART board - artisans and craftspeople don't, in my view, need to have anything to do with programs or universities or teaching or students - like you sit at home and work on making stuff, maybe you can sell it at a farmer's market or if you make something really good start your own business which could just be a single shop you run. Not to suggest there aren't or can't be traini…

Man whats "real ingredients". No you have to clarify what you meant by this. This is hinting at some really deep confusion of concepts. Are you somehow thinking that a chemical process when done at a home workshop is somehow different from the same chemical process being done in a factory?

Re: Temporary suspension of acceptance of mail to the United States

#422

Post by ericmay »

donkeybeer wrote: post #421
ericmay wrote: post #413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know what you mean by artisan UART board - artisans and craftspeople don't, in my view, need to have anything to do with programs or universities or teaching or students - like you sit at home and work on making stuff, maybe you can sell it at a farmer's market or if you make something really good start your own business which could just be a single shop you run. Not to suggest there aren't or can't be traini…

Man whats "real ingredients". No you have to clarify what you meant by this. This is hinting at some really deep confusion of concepts. Are you somehow thinking that a chemical process when done at a home workshop is somehow different from the same chemical process being done in a factory?

It can be - I don’t recall using xanthum gum or food dyes (or whatever these are just random “ingredients”) when I make something for someone in else to eat.

I don’t think this really requires clarification but I’m happy to indulge you on a product by product basis. Do you really think that loaf of bread you make at home is made with the same chemical process as the bread coming from Wonderbread on the shelves at Wal-Mart? It’s sure as hell not using the same ingredients and it definitely costs quite a bit of $.

You can apply this to furniture too. Do you think the furniture you buy at IKEA is made of actual wood with the same chemical process as the wood furniture you spend more money on that’s made by hand? (It’s not)

Are IKEA’s (or whoever) suppliers paying workers good wages? Are their practices sustainable? Are they clear cutting forests and mixing plastic and literal trash into the furniture you buy and throw away after it starts to degrade?

Even pharmaceuticals - are you sure generic drugs are just as good? I generally think so, but just because you cook with the same ingredients doesn’t mean Anthony Bourdain RIP isn’t using those same ingredients and making a better dish (drug).

If there’s confusion about concepts I would say it’s mostly confusion on behalf of the public whom goes to the store, sees price tag + brand, and thinks that’s all they are comparing when they buy things.

Re: Temporary suspension of acceptance of mail to the United States

#423

Post by donkeybeer »

ericmay wrote: post #422
donkeybeer wrote: post #421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Man whats "real ingredients". No you have to clarify what you meant by this. This is hinting at some really deep confusion of concepts. Are you somehow thinking that a chemical process when done at a home workshop is somehow different from the same chemical process being done in a factory?

It can be - I don’t recall using xanthum gum or food dyes (or whatever these are just random “ingredients”) when I make something for someone in else to eat. I don’t think this really requires clarification but I’m happy to indulge you on a product by product basis. Do you really think that loaf of bread you make at home is made with the same chemical process as the bread coming from Wonderbread on the shelves at Wal…

Plywood, MDF and various other wood products are not a bad thing. They have superior mechanical properties and are actually better for the environment since you can use wood that otherwise won't yield large solid boards. Again you yourself said it, pure hardwood furniture is kind of a luxury. There is nothing wrong with "artisanal" except pretending it is something that actually sustains life. Artisanal is a perfectly fine luxury hobby.

And yes, its the exact same chemical processes. How on earth would it not be? The fermentation of sugar is not a chemical process that suddenly changes based on weather its done at home or in a factory. The rest is just choice of grains, sugars and additives.

Re: Temporary suspension of acceptance of mail to the United States

#424

Post by coryrc »

runarberg wrote: post #397
zahlman wrote: post #394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Disqualifications may include I don't see why; many of those have nothing to do with what I would understand the concept of "democracy" to entail.

I am predicting (and hoping) that the concept of democracy will continue to shift towards ever greater inclusion and increased human rights as it has in the past two centuries, and a future vision of democracy would disqualify the current system as undemocratic for some of the points above. Just like how we don’t view pre-civil rights USA as democratic by modern standards. For example, we would never consider a count…

I would consider a country with universal suffrage, direct democracy, and legalized slavery to be a Democracy. It's unlikely and pretty shitty, but it's certainly a Democracy.

This twisting of definitions is the same thing happening to "racist". Some people only consider what was previously called "systemic racism" to be the singular definition of "racism" and pretend the old definition does not exist.

Re: Temporary suspension of acceptance of mail to the United States

#425

Post by donkeybeer »

ericmay wrote: post #422
donkeybeer wrote: post #421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Man whats "real ingredients". No you have to clarify what you meant by this. This is hinting at some really deep confusion of concepts. Are you somehow thinking that a chemical process when done at a home workshop is somehow different from the same chemical process being done in a factory?

It can be - I don’t recall using xanthum gum or food dyes (or whatever these are just random “ingredients”) when I make something for someone in else to eat. I don’t think this really requires clarification but I’m happy to indulge you on a product by product basis. Do you really think that loaf of bread you make at home is made with the same chemical process as the bread coming from Wonderbread on the shelves at Wal…

The public compares price tag first, and often only because its a LUXURY to factor in anything else. If they could afford and they saw some higher quality in it, they would have already bought something more expensive. Which obviously artificially inflating the price of the exact same item via tariffs doesn't suddenly make the "quality" part of the equation any different, so why bother with the same item but more expensive.

Re: Temporary suspension of acceptance of mail to the United States

#426

Post by ericmay »

donkeybeer wrote: post #425
ericmay wrote: post #422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It can be - I don’t recall using xanthum gum or food dyes (or whatever these are just random “ingredients”) when I make something for someone in else to eat. I don’t think this really requires clarification but I’m happy to indulge you on a product by product basis. Do you really think that loaf of bread you make at home is made with the same chemical process as the bread coming from Wonderbread on the shelves at Wal…

The public compares price tag first, and often only because its a LUXURY to factor in anything else. If they could afford and they saw some higher quality in it, they would have already bought something more expensive. Which obviously artificially inflating the price of the exact same item via tariffs doesn't suddenly make the "quality" part of the equation any different, so why bother with the same item but more exp…

> so why bother with the same item but more expensive.

It's not the same item, that's why. You're still not understanding how products are priced, nor are you accounting for negative externalities (or positive ones) that factor into that price.

Prices aren't being artificially inflated because of tariffs any more than they are artificially lower because of a certain country's monetary policy or wage gaps or whatever.

Re: Temporary suspension of acceptance of mail to the United States

#427

Post by runarberg »

coryrc wrote: post #424
runarberg wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am predicting (and hoping) that the concept of democracy will continue to shift towards ever greater inclusion and increased human rights as it has in the past two centuries, and a future vision of democracy would disqualify the current system as undemocratic for some of the points above. Just like how we don’t view pre-civil rights USA as democratic by modern standards. For example, we would never consider a count…

I would consider a country with universal suffrage, direct democracy, and legalized slavery to be a Democracy. It's unlikely and pretty shitty, but it's certainly a Democracy. This twisting of definitions is the same thing happening to "racist". Some people only consider what was previously called "systemic racism" to be the singular definition of "racism" and pretend the old definition does not exist.

I wouldn’t, and neither would most people, and neither would most in academia. At some point (probably around the 1960s) both human rights and equal rights became integral to the concept of democracy. You may not like it, but that is how most people (and most academics) use the concept. The standards for human rights and equal rights are also evolving and today includes stuff like indigenous rights, equal access, universal education, etc.

In the 1970s people were debating whether Apartheid South Africa was democratic or not (it obviously wasn’t; not even by the standards of the time) and today people are debating whether Israel is a democracy (again; it obviously isn’t) but if we apply the standards of the 1940s to both Apartheid South Africa, and today’s Israel, they would both be considered democratic.

And just to clarify, the concept of racism is equally evolving. Much of what we consider racist today would not have been considered racist in the 1980s. The (then considered non-racist) behavior of the 1980s was equally harmful as the same behavior today. But humanity has simply learned, and updated the concept of racism to include this behavior. This is the nature of knowledge and the human experience, we learn more things, and adjust our concepts to fit with our ever increasing knowledge.

Re: Temporary suspension of acceptance of mail to the United States

#428

Post by donkeybeer »

ericmay wrote: post #426
donkeybeer wrote: post #425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The public compares price tag first, and often only because its a LUXURY to factor in anything else. If they could afford and they saw some higher quality in it, they would have already bought something more expensive. Which obviously artificially inflating the price of the exact same item via tariffs doesn't suddenly make the "quality" part of the equation any different, so why bother with the same item but more exp…

> so why bother with the same item but more expensive. It's not the same item, that's why. You're still not understanding how products are priced, nor are you accounting for negative externalities (or positive ones) that factor into that price. Prices aren't being artificially inflated because of tariffs any more than they are artificially lower because of a certain country's monetary policy or wage gaps or whatever.

Its the exact same item on the shelf. It didn't change at all. The only thing changed was the government came and artificially jacked its expenses up.

Re: Temporary suspension of acceptance of mail to the United States

#429

Post by donkeybeer »

ericmay wrote: post #426
donkeybeer wrote: post #425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The public compares price tag first, and often only because its a LUXURY to factor in anything else. If they could afford and they saw some higher quality in it, they would have already bought something more expensive. Which obviously artificially inflating the price of the exact same item via tariffs doesn't suddenly make the "quality" part of the equation any different, so why bother with the same item but more exp…

> so why bother with the same item but more expensive. It's not the same item, that's why. You're still not understanding how products are priced, nor are you accounting for negative externalities (or positive ones) that factor into that price. Prices aren't being artificially inflated because of tariffs any more than they are artificially lower because of a certain country's monetary policy or wage gaps or whatever.

Again you are repeatedly failing to understand the word "luxury". Please look it up in a dictionary somewhere. Luxuries are nice, I can afford many luxuries. Others can't. All for the stupidity of paying more to gain absolutely nothing more at that, not even for any meaningful discernible difference.

Re: Temporary suspension of acceptance of mail to the United States

#430

Post by donkeybeer »

ericmay wrote: post #426
donkeybeer wrote: post #425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The public compares price tag first, and often only because its a LUXURY to factor in anything else. If they could afford and they saw some higher quality in it, they would have already bought something more expensive. Which obviously artificially inflating the price of the exact same item via tariffs doesn't suddenly make the "quality" part of the equation any different, so why bother with the same item but more exp…

> so why bother with the same item but more expensive. It's not the same item, that's why. You're still not understanding how products are priced, nor are you accounting for negative externalities (or positive ones) that factor into that price. Prices aren't being artificially inflated because of tariffs any more than they are artificially lower because of a certain country's monetary policy or wage gaps or whatever.

Give me a million dollars right now, and I will buy everything with supreme moral and ethical standards. If you truly believe in it, then you'd immediately give me a million instead of demanding the impossible: for someone to buy things several times out of their capabilities if you sum all items up.
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