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Waymo granted permit to begin testing in New York City

cnbc.com

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Re: Waymo granted permit to begin testing in New York City

#421

Post by hamdingers »

lenerdenator wrote: post #345
ilamont wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Traffic enforcement, which used to correct some bad driving, has basically evaporated in many parts of the U.S. This has been a long-term trend. A friend who's a cop told me that only when their department got specific state grants would they set up stings of drivers driving in a pedestrian walkway while someone was crossing the street. Here's an example of one such grant program, which is actually funded by the fede…

> The U.S. and other countries need to use automated methods of detecting and applying penalties. Some busy intersections have cameras for this, but it seems to be very limited, maybe because of cost. Ultimately, someone still has to send in a check, and if they don't, you go back to the same problem, which is having police officers interact with random drivers, this time with a no-show warrant. This isn't as much of…

> which is having police officers interact with random drivers, this time with a no-show warrant.

Impounding vehicles is an option too. Like we do for parking tickets. That is routinely done without police interaction, or interaction at all with the driver.

I know in California if you ignore a red light ticket long enough they'll pull the fines (plus penalties and interest) from your state tax return.

Re: Waymo granted permit to begin testing in New York City

#422

Post by tptacek »

hammock wrote: post #414
ithkuil wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The lights should be designed so that if you don't have enough space to stop with a mild deceleration you should just go through. If a mild deceleration get you rear ended then of course that's an unsolvable problem

No one wants to risk a ticket with a guess at how long the yellow is going to be, or whether they’ll make it thru or not. That is the unsolvable part. Yellows are inconsistent , and you aren’t accounting for slow-moving traffic ahead of you that might cause you to block the intersection, etc. There was actually a scandal in Chicago were a study found that the city systematically reduced the length of yellows only on…

I feel like the subtext of all these concerns is that you'd need to drive very carefully to reliably avoid camera tickets... and nobody wants to drive that carefully. I get it, I don't either, and I do get occasional camera tickets. But like: I should also be driving more carefully.

Re: Waymo granted permit to begin testing in New York City

#423

Post by hamdingers »

Antoniocl wrote: post #321
rs186 wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Complete unrelated, I just wish every driver on the road re-learn that cyclists have the same rights of being on city roads like cars.

How this issue skews probably depends on where you live, but in the area I live, I have the opposite complaint: that bicyclists should re-learn that they are legally required (in my city) to ride on roads, rather than barrelling down sidewalks. That said, this is coming from me as a pedestrian, so maybe someone who was primarily a driver would have a completely different take from both of us.

Has your city made an effort to make it safe and attractive to ride on every street?

Or is that a de-facto ban on cycling.

Re: Waymo granted permit to begin testing in New York City

#424

Post by hamdingers »

bsder wrote: post #375
gibolt wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The real issue is all the current bad drivers. A requirement to start re-testing normal people in addition to the elderly would be a large benefit to society.

> A requirement to start re-testing normal people in addition to the elderly would be a large benefit to society. 1) Are you going to fund that? Because it means a significant increase in testing examiners. 2) The data say over and over and over that the single best traffic safety enhancement would be to ban drivers until they are 21. People have to be in their 80s(!) before they are as bad as drivers in their teens…

1. The people who want to drive should fund their own testing. This is how it works for every other heavy equipment operator's license.

2. Sounds good

Re: Waymo granted permit to begin testing in New York City

#425

Post by dgunay »

Antoniocl wrote: post #321
rs186 wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Complete unrelated, I just wish every driver on the road re-learn that cyclists have the same rights of being on city roads like cars.

How this issue skews probably depends on where you live, but in the area I live, I have the opposite complaint: that bicyclists should re-learn that they are legally required (in my city) to ride on roads, rather than barrelling down sidewalks. That said, this is coming from me as a pedestrian, so maybe someone who was primarily a driver would have a completely different take from both of us.

I don't personally care whether bikes (or scooters) ride on the road or the sidewalk, but my one ask is that:

If they ride on the sidewalk, they should behave like pedestrians. That is, do not blast into the crosswalk at 20mph (impossible for drivers to safely check for in most environments), do not randomly enter the road from the sidewalk, pass pedestrians at a respectful speed and distance, etc.

If they ride on the road, they should behave similarly to motorists. That is, actually obey stop signs (rolling stop, or even treating it like a yield is okay), and actually obey traffic lights.

I'll even tolerate transitioning from one to the other at appropriate traffic stops. Just please don't get upset if I almost run you over for abruptly taking right of way you never legally had.

Re: Waymo granted permit to begin testing in New York City

#426

Post by nradov »

afcool83 wrote: post #239

I live in one of the areas they are actively testing/training in. Their cars consistently behave better and more safely than most human drivers that I’m forced to share the road with. As semi-autonomous and autonomous cars become the norm, I would adore to see obtaining a drivers license ratchet up in difficulty in order to remove dangerous human drivers from the road.

Making it more difficult to obtain (or keep) a driver's license is meaningless without tough enforcement. Traffic enforcement in many areas is still way down after the "mostly peaceful" protests in 2020. When police do stop an unlicensed driver they often treat it as a simple citation without even impounding the vehicle.

Re: Waymo granted permit to begin testing in New York City

#427

Post by mulmen »

jen20 wrote: post #384
mulmen wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have only taken a couple Waymos but I had the opposite experience. They were much faster and more decisive than I expected. They do apparently learn from surrounding drivers and this was LA so maybe that explains the difference.

It wouldn't surprise me if each Waymo has one of a pool of aggression settings - I've noticed the difference between cars as a rider.

Interesting. I hadn’t considered it but that makes a lot of sense. I wonder if that happens per car or per ride. Do aggression settings adjust to apparent passenger comfort?

Re: Waymo granted permit to begin testing in New York City

#428

Post by dmurray »

bsder wrote: post #375
gibolt wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The real issue is all the current bad drivers. A requirement to start re-testing normal people in addition to the elderly would be a large benefit to society.

> A requirement to start re-testing normal people in addition to the elderly would be a large benefit to society. 1) Are you going to fund that? Because it means a significant increase in testing examiners. 2) The data say over and over and over that the single best traffic safety enhancement would be to ban drivers until they are 21. People have to be in their 80s(!) before they are as bad as drivers in their teens…

1) could reasonably be self funded. $150 per driver every 5 years is a rounding error compared to all the other costs of car ownership.

2) how much of this is because the drivers are young, and how much because they are inexperienced? If you ban teenage drivers, your 22-year-old drivers will still be inexperienced.

Re: Waymo granted permit to begin testing in New York City

#429

Post by nradov »

bathtub365 wrote: post #333
rs186 wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Complete unrelated, I just wish every driver on the road re-learn that cyclists have the same rights of being on city roads like cars.

Yep, including not being allowed to run red lights. It would also be great if they had license plates so you could easily report dangerous behaviour.

At some intersections the sensor loops literally never activate for bikes (especially carbon bikes with very little metal). If you don't run the red light then you'll be stuck there until a car happens to come along and trip the sensor for you.

Re: Waymo granted permit to begin testing in New York City

#430

Post by potato3732842 »

afcool83 wrote: post #239

I live in one of the areas they are actively testing/training in. Their cars consistently behave better and more safely than most human drivers that I’m forced to share the road with. As semi-autonomous and autonomous cars become the norm, I would adore to see obtaining a drivers license ratchet up in difficulty in order to remove dangerous human drivers from the road.

Like "real" safety or like "16yo with a driver's ed instructor in the passenger seat ensuring the follow every law but doesn't really 'get it' yet" safely?
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