Helsinki records zero traffic deaths for full year • Hacker News Board

Re: Helsinki records zero traffic deaths for full year

#421

Post by fmbb » Sun, Aug 03, 2025, 9:07 AM UTC

chrz wrote: post #388

graemep wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand the UK as a whole had a lower road traffic realted death rate than Finland did: https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/reported-road-casua... The UK is not that different by comparison. It is a pretty remarkable achievement though, and shows what can be done.

beacuse traffic is so bad that no cars are really moving on city streets. The artificial safety of overly putting more lights than necessary is slowing down whole city and make it safer this way. The poeple and culture as whole is even less safety aware because of over governance and warning signs everywhere

There is nothing artificial about that.

The more you annoy drivers of cars and the less efficient you make streets for car traffic and the more you force them to not trust their surroundings, the safer the streets are for everyone.

Re: Helsinki records zero traffic deaths for full year

#422

Post by franga2000 » Sun, Aug 03, 2025, 9:10 AM UTC

throwaway9832 wrote: post #416

franga2000 wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where did anyone say that??? As for trucks having the same speed limit as cars in general: 1) a lot of the time there is a lower limit, 2) the truck itself has a lower max highway speed, 3) there a far fewer trucks on the road so it doesn't matter a much, 4) they are driven by professional drivers with things like electronically enforced daily driving limits, so many of the common causes of accidents are less likely.

The legislation in the Anglosphere countries? Are you slow? Where in Australia, New Zealand, Singapore, UK, Canada, or even most of US can you go 10 km/h over speed limit and not get fined? For your other points. 1. Where? other than steep grades, differential speed is not a thing. 2. Where again? Which trucks? Majority of trucks can do highway speed just fine, despite their 3 to 10x stopping distance. 3. Fewer track…

You were replying to a comment saying "studies have shown lower speed limits reduce accidents" with something along the lines of "but who cares if I go 10 over the limit, trucks have more mass and are more dangerous at the same speed". I can't even see your original comment since it was flagged, presumably for being total nonsense.

This is not one vs the other, multiple things can be true. Trucks are individually more dangerous than cars. There are far more cars than trucks on basically every road basically everywhere. Cars are driven by any idiot in all kinds of situations, trucks are driven by professionals during their regulated working hours.

Re: Helsinki records zero traffic deaths for full year

#423

Post by throwaway9832 » Sun, Aug 03, 2025, 9:10 AM UTC

macintux wrote: post #303

Teever wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to be suggesting that frozen roads paradoxically make for safer driving? Is that a fair characterization of your comment?

I'm not the person you're replying to, and I have no idea what the data says about frozen roads, but it's certainly possible that two things are both true: - There are more accidents (per active vehicle) on frozen roads - There are fewer fatalities on frozen roads due to the lower speeds

[flagged]

Re: Helsinki records zero traffic deaths for full year

#424

Post by 7952 » Sun, Aug 03, 2025, 9:12 AM UTC

mattlondon wrote: post #34

thomascountz wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A 30 km/h limit and decline in driving means zero people have to die. If enforcing scooters meant zero people have to die, I'm not sure what the objection is, truly.

Scooters kill people too (often the drivers themselves but not always). The problem with escooters is that basically any accident is "bad" since you have no protection while you toodle along at 15.5mph. Not just slamming into the ground, but into street furniture, trees, building, bikes - you name it. A helmet (which no one wears) is not going to help you if you wrap your abdomen around a solid metal bench at 15.5mph…

That is exactly the danger a pedestrian faces when a car drives into them. At least with a scooter the driver takes on more of the risk and has more skin in the game.

Re: Helsinki records zero traffic deaths for full year

#425

Post by sussmannbaka » Sun, Aug 03, 2025, 9:12 AM UTC

bluefirebrand wrote: post #325

adrianN wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Public transport in Berlin and London is pretty good and both are quite multicultural.

[flagged]

I'm a heavy commuter and have been for the last two decades and there are no recent developments worth talking about, take it for what you will.

Re: Helsinki records zero traffic deaths for full year

#426

Post by throwaway9832 » Sun, Aug 03, 2025, 9:14 AM UTC

wafflemaker wrote: post #414

bluescrn wrote: post #394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Zero MPH = zero traffic = zero road deaths. But without transport significantly more people will die from other things, due to reduced access to healthcare, employment, food, etc. In a modern society, road transport is a critical part of our life support system. Those pushing for a what they see as a car-free utopia tend to ignore this.

30 km\h limit in densely populated and heavily used by pedestrians first\last 2-5 minutes of your travel does what? Extends your travel time by 1 minute? At the same time making it nearly impossible to kill a kid, cat, dog or human in these places. Same goes with the right of way in these places. You're in a car, you're getting where you're going much faster anyway, so you let pedestrians go first. On pedestrian cros…

You, just like the grandparent, confuse egregious 0% tolerance speed enforcement with speed limits. Speed limits dictates stopping distance and is a key factor in collision avoidance. No one is asking to abolish speed limits.

The problem is when passenger cars that require a fraction of stopping distance of a truck at given speed limit are fined for going 3-4 km over limit. Essentially, fined for driving at a speed where they can stop many meters before a truck going the sign posted limit. Revenue raising in the name of safety, down playing other factors like attention, driver training, road design, maintenance, and so on, but they don't bring as much money.

Re: Helsinki records zero traffic deaths for full year

#427

Post by j1elo » Sun, Aug 03, 2025, 9:21 AM UTC

I wanted to read opinions about the cost in time that public transport takes, but it hasn't been commented much. Time is precious (albeit not more than a life! that I agree for sure), and you cannot save it for later, so the problem I have with public transport is the enormous loss of time it is for everyone -- unless the planning is almost flawless. So first we had distances effectively "shortened" with the rise of private transportation, and now we go back to widening them again, in terms of time and practicality of covering longer distances in the modern day-to-day life.

Here in my city, even though the public transport is already considered among the best of Europe, and you only hear praise about how well connected everything is... (so you wouldn't expect any radical improvements any time soon) on a Sunday I still take ~16 minutes to cover 14 km (8.7 miles) by car to meet my partner, while the same distance by p.t. is 1h20m. So yeah, no thanks.

I picked 2 points at random in Helsinki, separated by 14 km, and Gmaps says it's 24 mins by car or 48 mins by public transport, so while it's already double, it feels much more reasonable.

Still there is the problem of reducing ability to have a lifestyle that implies many movements. E.g. after visiting my partner I went another 25 km (15.5 miles) to have dinner with my family. On the way back to my home I stopped by a utility store to buy some stuff. All those trips combined would have meant too many hours spent on a subway or bus (checked it: 2h50m and that's giving up on the shopping stop), but combined by car were a mere 1h15m.

I get the people who say "I don't have any use for a car, my city is phenomenal", but I also think a subset of those people might simply have assumed (deliberately or not) the limitations it implies, and would possibly achieve more things in their day to day if transporting themselves was a quicker process.

Points of view and different opinions are welcome :)

Re: Helsinki records zero traffic deaths for full year

#428

Post by inglor_cz » Sun, Aug 03, 2025, 9:21 AM UTC

derektank wrote: post #224

pantalaimon wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What kind of policy is that based on? Seems very counter intuitive, aren't are supposed to meet your classmates after school?

It was a decision intended to foster racial and socioeconomic diversity, adopted in 2020[1]. It will likely be reversed in the 2026/2027 school year[2] [1] https://drive.google.com/file/d/1WxAVUXfKCdhSlFa8rYZqTBC-Zmz... [2] https://www.sfusd.edu/schools/enroll/student-assignment-poli...

I wonder if future centuries will look at the current obsession with diversity (tbh the peak is visibly behind us) the same way that we look at the ancient Egyptians collecting amulets with holy dung beetles: an utterly incomprehensible ritual.

Re: Helsinki records zero traffic deaths for full year

#429

Post by throwaway9832 » Sun, Aug 03, 2025, 9:22 AM UTC

franga2000 wrote: post #422

throwaway9832 wrote: post #416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The legislation in the Anglosphere countries? Are you slow? Where in Australia, New Zealand, Singapore, UK, Canada, or even most of US can you go 10 km/h over speed limit and not get fined? For your other points. 1. Where? other than steep grades, differential speed is not a thing. 2. Where again? Which trucks? Majority of trucks can do highway speed just fine, despite their 3 to 10x stopping distance. 3. Fewer track…

You were replying to a comment saying "studies have shown lower speed limits reduce accidents" with something along the lines of "but who cares if I go 10 over the limit, trucks have more mass and are more dangerous at the same speed". I can't even see your original comment since it was flagged, presumably for being total nonsense. This is not one vs the other, multiple things can be true. Trucks are individually mor…

I reply because "studies have show that claims of studies have show are often false".

There is absolutely zero chance any respectable study would support that focusing on maintaining exactly 110 km in a 110km is safer than allowing a 10% buffer (going 10km over) so you can focus on the road and spend more of your attention on spatial awareness than staring at the odometer.

Second, it is not about "who cares", it is about road design, a road that is up to standards of allowing a b-double doing 110km means a smaller car can safety do 140km or more. It is exactly one way or the other. It is either unsafe for B-Double to do 110km or a small modern car to do 140km. It is simple laws of physics.

You can't see my original comment, so opt to make some nonsense assumptions to feel good about yourself. By God,this place is a cesspit of arrogance.

Re: Helsinki records zero traffic deaths for full year

#430

Post by OtherShrezzing » Sun, Aug 03, 2025, 9:26 AM UTC

j1elo wrote: post #427

I wanted to read opinions about the cost in time that public transport takes, but it hasn't been commented much. Time is precious (albeit not more than a life! that I agree for sure), and you cannot save it for later, so the problem I have with public transport is the enormous loss of time it is for everyone -- unless the planning is almost flawless. So first we had distances effectively "shortened" with the rise of…

Feels like performing this assessment on a Sunday morning is weighting it massively in favour of the car. Busses run a reduced service in most cities, and traffic is far lighter on a weekend than during the week.

What do those times look like on a Wednesday evening during the commute home?