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Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

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Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#421

Post by rustystump »

mywittyname wrote: post #273
derbOac wrote: post #229

Why isn't there another counter group putting pressure on them to not pull this kind of thing?

Because it's slightly/majority embarrassing. The groups backing this ban will find the worst of the worst thing, and paint you as a massive supporter. And their militant zealots will endanger your life if you become significant enough. It takes a certain kind of person to stand up for pornography. And most are not that kind of person.

You can defend porn while not defending incest.

Keep all the porn that is great. But there has to be a line somewhere and even the most accepting countries have a line.

Often the groups defending porn are defending the most egregious stuff which makes it hard for people to support.

Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#422

Post by flumpcakes »

crooked-v wrote: post #360
flumpcakes wrote: post #319

They are targeting incest/rape games. I wouldn't call that 'LGBTQ' like some people seem to imply. If Itch and Steam don't want to police their store fronts _before_ the law gets involved, then I am not surprised that other businesses such as payment providers will choose not to work with them. Visa and MasterCard are in the business of making money, they're not doing this for fun.

Collective Shout also actively targets games like Detroit: Become Human that are hardly 'incest/rape games'.

And that game is still available. Hardly evidence that payment providers are targeting all 'NSFW' or adult games.

Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#423

Post by codedokode »

tryauuum wrote: post #258

hello from Russia, which was disconnected from the rest of the world by our overloads Visa and Mastercard There's a whole buisness model of russians paying to a company in Kazahstan so that they buy a steam game and gift it to a russian user

In Russia many of those games would be illegal: LGBT is illegal, propaganda against having children is illegal, etc.

Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#424

Post by swayvil »

can16358p wrote: post #105

What is wrong with these people who try to block certain content? Don't like porn? Don't buy it. Simple as that. No one, including governments or payment processors, should be in the position to decide whether a platform can sell something or not. I wish there was a payment processor who was brave enough to say a big fucking NO to censorship.

In the game of politics we split one group away from another and get them to fight. This achieves several effects.

Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#425

Post by ninetyninenine »

can16358p wrote: post #105

What is wrong with these people who try to block certain content? Don't like porn? Don't buy it. Simple as that. No one, including governments or payment processors, should be in the position to decide whether a platform can sell something or not. I wish there was a payment processor who was brave enough to say a big fucking NO to censorship.

You know. I used to be all about what you're going for. But I realized that porn to a certain extent is like cocaine. It's possibly one of the drivers for world wide declining population. Tons of dudes satisfying themselves without the urge to go out and do the real thing. There's growing science about this too.

I don't like the conservative angle which is to be "proper" or it's against god, but from the scientific side this stuff is bad.

Now I also agree that censorship is bad too and on a moral level this stuff doesn't harm anyone morally.

I'm still a staunch 90s liberal, but over time I'm starting to realize that there's an evolutionary reason why conservative values exist. Humans weren't designed to live in a world of only fans where every girl who's slightly hot can gain so much power over hundreds of men. Like there are 4th - 10th order effects here that go past morality.

I mentioned the population problem right, that's just one example. We have no idea wtf is causing it. But we do know that the population issue correlates with so many changes in society, and it's a big freaking deal.

Another thing is rising womens power. I'm all for it. It's moral and right to give women equal rights and equal power, but humanity has never encountered such a scenario. It's always the men that lead the hunt and the family and they were the bread winners for millions of years. Were humans evolved to support such changes? Like if we satisfy every moral imperative in our primitive brains and build a utopia but human biology was never meant for utopia is it right?

That's the problem. The population is declining. We don't know why. But we do know everything is different.

So I know I got off on a huge tangent here. But i feel porn is one of these things. It's right to keep it open and free, but it's causing unexpected side effects. Most of us were not meant to deal with that level of extreme hedonism.

Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#426

Post by MSFT_Edging »

johnnyanmac wrote: post #281
m463 wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

any sex questions led to non answers. the point was that content is blocked almost by default nowadays

But the LLM gave you a detailed answer on another sex question. I'm a bit confused why that example was used.

Intercourse vs sexuality. Not the same thing.

Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#427

Post by ahmeneeroe-v2 »

can16358p wrote: post #105

What is wrong with these people who try to block certain content? Don't like porn? Don't buy it. Simple as that. No one, including governments or payment processors, should be in the position to decide whether a platform can sell something or not. I wish there was a payment processor who was brave enough to say a big fucking NO to censorship.

Similarly, if you don't like something, you shouldn't have to sell it. Or host it. Or process payments for it.

Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#428

Post by trothamel »

Saline9515 wrote: post #252
johnnyanmac wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>whether or not it's moral and appropriate to advocate for and work towards its abolition in what you see as the best interest of everyone? That lines creates justification for anything and even everyone to be banned, sadly. >Is "Don't like X? Don't buy it" as far as we should go with... AI-produced child porn? My line is "is there a victim harmed with the action". Shooting a gun? Yes, someone is often harmed and kil…

The problem with simulated CSAM is that there is a risk that the viewer develops a fetish for such repulsive practices. It has then destructive consequences for the viewer and, should he try to perform it, his victims. Either way, I don't see the harm of forbidding it. The web doesn't lack regular pornography alternatives, free or paid.

Two arguments I can think of:

The first is that you're banning free expression, and banning free expression is inherently harmful.

There's also the displacement theory - with the legal content being much more accessible and regulated to ensure minors aren't involved in production, it displaces illegal content that does harm minors.

Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#429

Post by ndriscoll »

fc417fc802 wrote: post #384
ndriscoll wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alcohol and gambling are commonly restricted if not outright banned in various localities though, and most people would consider those and fast food to be harmful. So you seem to be agreeing with GP that while you may not think it should be banned, you find it comparable to things that are widely recognized as "generally not good for people".

Porn is also typically restricted. Just as many jurisdictions permit neither public consumption nor intoxication, everywhere I've lived had laws against publicly displaying "obscene" content. The issue with GGP is that in context it appears to be an argument in favor of increasing restrictions (ie in favor of the events that the article is talking about) despite disclaiming that "You don't have to agree that it shoul…

My read was that they were merely saying that it's not helpful to characterize desire for such restrictions as fundamentally coming from some religious angle. There are entirely secular reasons to consider restrictions even if you e.g. weigh personal autonomy as more important than those reasons and therefore believe there should not be restrictions.

It's perfectly fine to say "I think porn is generally unhealthy and would suggest people not partake, but I think they ought to be able if they'd like". It's also reasonable to say "I think things like porn, alcohol, cigarettes, violence, and/or gambling should be accessible to adults, but they should not be able to advertise in spaces where children are likely to visit (like an online video game store), and stores should check ID to purchase those things, and 'paying via advertising' should not act as a loophole for those ID checks." There's a wide range of reasonable positions to debate that are entirely shut down by basically implying that people are unreasonable to disagree.

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