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Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

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421–430 of 445 posts

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The reason manual safeties are going away is that for side arms, time matters A LOT. Gun fights are typically over within just a few seconds and the person who fires first has a huge advantage. I know there are a lot of people who share this opinion, but speaking as ex-military, I think it's quite disingenuous and dangerous. Real life isn't some old-fashioned Western film where draw speed matters. If an adversary i…

Why is every opinion qualified as "ex-military" always tend to be hyperbolic, technically incorrect and full of appeals to authority rather than actual factual information? > There is no real-world situation where you are really just that much better at drawing and firing accurately that you will out-draw an adversary who drew on you first There is, and it is called training. Get a timer, hit the range, and get your…

> it is called training

Even if I take you at your word for the sake of argument, what percentage, do you think, roughly, of gun owners are going to take "a few years, several thousand rounds of ammunition, and periodic maintenance" to get to that level? Because guns without manual safeties are sold to people regardless of such skill level, and no such demonstration of skill is required for licensing in order to purchase such a manual-safety-less weapon. Especially in legal environments where the Second Amendment is used to justify weapons purchases without or with minimal licensing or other restrictions, it is all the more incumbent for people to understand what their real limitations are, for their own safety.

> Disparity of force

Perhaps, instead of "a few years" at the range, you might want to take a couple of self-defense classes? In the range where martial arts matter, skill is a far greater determinant than sheer physical size. I'll grant you that martial arts is not a universal strategy (e.g. people in wheelchairs), but I would also argue that, of the people for whom martial arts is not a strategy, in a significant plurality if not a majority of cases where such incompatibility is due to frailty, such frailty will also usually preclude the kind of "few years, several thousand rounds of ammo, and periodic maintenance", not to mention reaction speed, that it would take to actually succeed in a drawing contest.

> They would never intervene, get involved with, or otherwise "rescue" anyone else with lethal force.

Many, many Good Samaritans out there would disagree with this offensive take that shows more how society has disintegrated than anything else in this thread. The audience should note that I, someone who does carry, am apparently a "sheepdog" because I decide to employ a manual safety, am aware of my limitations, and encourage others to be honest with themselves instead of thinking that they're big people just because they went out and bought a firearm.

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can you in good conscience write such obvious, and easily falsifiable falsehoods? https://www.cleveland19.com/2025/07/24/3-lorain-police-offic... https://nypost.com/2025/07/24/us-news/long-island-cop-shot-i... https://www.wisn.com/article/milwaukee-police-officer-corder... and on, and on...

they don't "go home" in a body bag. they go to the morgue, and to a funeral home, to a grave or an urn. You know about as much about guns as you do about deaths. You are only posting emotionally loaded responses, not actually thinking about a word you say.

That you’ve resorted to quibbling about the literal meaning of a common piece of figurative speech is pretty funny. It also implies you have nothing of substance to actually say on the topic. Instead, you’ve chosen ad-hominem.

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#423
post #109
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m a panicked position maybe you should not fire a gun. If you cannot even chamber a round who’s to say you can hit what you want to hit?

In what situation do you imagine a civilian legally using a gun for self-defense is not “panicked”?

I am not.

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s crazy if you have good morals and care about your fellow man. If you want to make boatloads of cash and don’t care about lives, you follow the rules and the same playbook as Remington did when their rifles suffered a similar self-firing phenomenon that killed customers. Delay, deny, defend yourself and take in as much cash as possible until you are legally boxed in. Hope at that point your profits are greater th…

> ...have good morals and care about your fellow man. Seems opposed to the values of an arms manufacturer.

I’ve yet to see any industry for which it applies.

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#425
post #133

There are really two separate claims being made about the P320 and unintentional discharges. One claim is that the gun can fire when dropped at a certain angle from a certain height. The voluntary "recall" lets you send it back to Sig and they replace some parts. I think the cause was because the trigger itself was bulky enough for a drop to give it enough inertia to fire, but I'm not 100% sure on that. The other cla…

Consider the Canik TP9SF Elite rather than the ubiquitous Glock. My EDC is an TP9 Elite SC. Thousands of rounds through it and support is outstanding. Several advantages and features over big G. Nothing wrong with the Glock 17 G5 or 19 G5.

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#426
post #410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That isn't going to stop crime in the US or make dangerous areas in the US really any safer though. Nobody is concerned about someone legally carrying deciding to randomly shoot them.

Okay now you’re being hyperbolic in the other direction. There are plenty of incidents of minor arguments / road rage turning deadly because someone legally carrying decided to draw and use their firearm when there wasn’t any imminent danger. It’s certainly not the norm for gun violence in public but it’s certainly not a nonexistent risk either.

Okay yeah sure, it can and does happen on occasion, but how often matters a lot. We can't just ban everything over every rare and unlikely scenario, and it will still do basically nothing to stop 99.9% of gun crime. Plus from when the CDC was allowed to research such things, they found between 500,000-3,000,000 cases of defensive firearm use per year in the US, 2-10x as high as violent crimes.

Maybe you live somewhere privileged enough that you can rely on the police to protect you, but most of the US doesn't. For many people in the US police response is 30+ minutes, and the police themselves pose as much of a threat to them as the criminals they are calling about if a potential danger.

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#427
post #295
post #133

There are really two separate claims being made about the P320 and unintentional discharges. One claim is that the gun can fire when dropped at a certain angle from a certain height. The voluntary "recall" lets you send it back to Sig and they replace some parts. I think the cause was because the trigger itself was bulky enough for a drop to give it enough inertia to fire, but I'm not 100% sure on that. The other cla…

> I have not had the self-recall fix done Why? Also, isn't that only an issue in early P320s? (at least according to Sig) > and I'll never chamber a round in it again Isn't this good enough for most uses? Heck, a long time ago I was trained to only chamber after unholstering AND entering a situation requiring quick response. The extra round not being worth the risk. 17 instead of 17+1 for the 9mm P320, right? Honestl…

> to pump American brands

Sig is an American company, owned by a German holding corp, but still significantly more American than any other pistol mfg being considered, Glock or Beretta.

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#428

Earlier quoted context omitted.

im curious where you live where home invasions dont happen. i live in one of the safest states in the US and home invasions happen here. people actually do commit random violence in home invasions by the way. your having chosen not to look into it at all or read the news ever doesnt negate this. its to say that random violence in home invasions is common, but the point is that it does happen. and i think people shoul…

of course home invasions happen, but they’re rare. and the number involving guns is much smaller. look up the statistics instead of getting scared watching the news. so a police officer shows up at your door. you’re going to greet them with a gun drawn? that will get you killed. i do own a firearm, but i don’t walk around with it like a cowboy. and i discourage others because of all the risks mentioned.

>and the number involving guns is much smaller.

lol. a threat of violence can exist without the gun. im glad you are confident in your ability to beat any random, unknown stranger (especially tweakers) in a tussle. as someone with bjj and boxing experience i would say this is unbelievably arrogant though.

>look up the statistics instead of getting scared watching the news.

ive seen the same ones that the other guy replied to you with. this is almost not worth replying to because you are just being snide and dismissive. to reciprocate, do you realize that the statistics (which you havent actually read) aren't the governing force of what happens to you in your life? statistics are a model of reality. for example, what do you think the odds would say that between when i replied to your post yesterday and now, that i experienced a break in where someone was trying to climb into my son's room at 3 in the morning? do you think my first thought was about the statistical likelihood of it? for the record i live in one of the safest states in the US. life isn't a spreadsheet with numbers on it, genius. if you are comforted by those numbers, good for you. telling others to not be scared of bad things happening to them is peak dork arrogance.

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#429
post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Charged and locked, hard to screw that up.

"Cocked & Locked" is usually how people refer to this - and it is easy to screw up. Under stress, people's fine motor skills vanish, sometimes resulting in the safety not being disengaged as you draw from the holster. Additionally, it can be accidentally flipped off during handling. Modern firearms have multiple internal safeties to prevent accidental discharges (unless you're Sig apparently).

It depends.

If for some reason you're open carrying in a holster (like perhaps a police officer or soldier would be), and someone tries to get your weapon off of you and succeeds, a manual safety could save your life. They probably won't realize that the safety is on, and when they point the weapon at you and pull the trigger, nothing will happen, giving you a chance to escape or fight back.

Without that manual safety, the weapon just goes off and you now have an aftermarket hole installed in your body.

There's less of an argument manual safties in concealed carry, though. The opponent shouldn't know you have the weapon until it's drawn, so there's less chance of them getting it out of a holster.

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a hard question to answer, but I'll try to boil it down to this specific firearm. Many handguns, like all Glocks and many Sigs, these days are "striker fired," meaning there's an internal hammer that strikes the hammer versus an external hammer. Internal hammers are more complicated than external hammers, and that includes, in the case of Glocks, two built-in safeties internally that would prevent misfires. T…

The absence of external manually activated safeties is really orthogonal to whether it’s striker fired or external hammer fired. There are countless guns that have external hammers with traditional double action or single action modes, but still lack an external safety. This is true of many many SIG and HK models.

This is why I said I'm boiling it down to the 320. It gets too complicated to throw in DA/SA
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