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Reflections on OpenAI

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Re: Reflections on OpenAI

#421

Post by 47282847 »

xandrius wrote: post #338
47282847 wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do know that early bonding experiences of newborns are crucial for their lifelong development? It reads like satire, or, if serious, plain child maltreatment.

Pushing it a bit there, aren't we?

Winston, R., & Chicot, R. (2016). The importance of early bonding on the long-term mental health and resilience of children. London journal of primary care, 8(1), 12–14. https://doi.org/10.1080/17571472.2015.1133012

Brown, G. L., Mangelsdorf, S. C., & Neff, C. (2012). Father involvement, paternal sensitivity, and father-child attachment security in the first 3 years. Journal of family psychology : JFP : journal of the Division of Family Psychology of the American Psychological Association (Division 43), 26(3), 421–430. https://doi.org/10.1037/a0027836

Deneault, A. A., Bakermans-Kranenburg, M. J., Groh, A. M., Fearon, P. R. M., & Madigan, S. (2021). Child-father attachment in early childhood and behavior problems: A meta-analysis. New directions for child and adolescent development, 2021(180), 43–66. https://doi.org/10.1002/cad.20434

Scism, A. R., & Cobb, R. L. (2017). Integrative Review of Factors and Interventions That Influence Early Father-Infant Bonding. Journal of obstetric, gynecologic, and neonatal nursing : JOGNN, 46(2), 163–170. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.jogn.2016.09.004

Jeong, J., Franchett, E. E., Ramos de Oliveira, C. V., Rehmani, K., & Yousafzai, A. K. (2021). Parenting interventions to promote early child development in the first three years of life: A global systematic review and meta-analysis. PLoS medicine, 18(5), e1003602. https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pmed.1003602

Joas, J., & Möhler, E. (2021). Bonding in Early Infancy Predicts Childrens' Social Competences in Preschool Age. Frontiers in psychiatry, 12, 687535. https://doi.org/10.3389/fpsyt.2021.687535

Thümmler R, Engel E-M, Bartz J. Strengthening Emotional Development and Emotion Regulation in Childhood—As a Key Task in Early Childhood Education. International Journal of Environmental Research and Public Health. 2022; 19(7):3978. https://doi.org/10.3390/ijerph19073978

Re: Reflections on OpenAI

#422

Post by ml-anon »

sillysaurusx wrote: post #401
kridsdale1 wrote: post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a chance to join OpenAI 13 months ago too. But I had a son 14 months ago. There was absolutely no way I was going to miss any of a critical part in my baby’s life in order to be in an office at 2am managing a bad deployment. Maybe I gave up my chance at PPU or RSU riches. But I know I chose a different kind of wealth that can never be replaced.

Wow, ditto! I thought I was the only one who took an extended leave to watch their baby grow up. Totally worth it, and it was a wonderful experience being able to focus 100% on her.

You both 100% made the right choice. The number of apologists for terrible fathers in this thread explains a lot.

Re: Reflections on OpenAI

#423

Post by ml-anon »

pegasus wrote: post #387
Xenoamorphous wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know, when I became a parent I was in for the full ride, not to have someone else raising her. Yes, raising includes changing diapers and all that.

You make it sound like your choice is somehow the righteous one. I'm not convinced. What's wrong with a hiring help, as long as it's well selected? And anyway, usually the help would take care of various errands to free up mom so she can focus on her baby. But maybe they have happily involved grandparents. Maybe he was working part-time. Or maybe there's some other factor we're completely missing on right now.

>>free up no so she can focus on her baby

Their baby, I presume…not just hers.

Literally any excuse for the man to not be involved.

Re: Reflections on OpenAI

#424

Post by ml-anon »

47282847 wrote: post #330
teiferer wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Way to go to keep the boring chores of the first months with the partner and join the fun when the little one starts to be more fun after a year. With all that cash, I'm sure they could buy a bunch of help for the partner too.

You do know that early bonding experiences of newborns are crucial for their lifelong development? It reads like satire, or, if serious, plain child maltreatment.

It’s obvious why the HN news community has downvoted this comment but you’re absolutely spot on.

This thread reads like all the excuses for emotional and actual abandonment of a mother and a newborn for man’s little work project.

Re: Reflections on OpenAI

#425

Post by ml-anon »

baggachipz wrote: post #342
teiferer wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is lots of rationalizing going on in his article. > I returned early from my paternity leave to help participate in the Codex launch. 10 years from now, the significance of having participated in that launch will be ridiculously small (unless you tell yourself that it was a pivotal moment of your life, even if it objectively wasn't) versus those first weeks with your newborn will never come back. Kudos to your…

The very fact that he did this exemplifies everything that is wrong about the tech industry and our current society. He's praising himself for this instead of showing remorse for his failure as a parent.

Failure as a parent and a partner. Pregnancy and childbirth is traumatic both physically and emotionally. Basically abandoning your partner to deal with that alone is diabolical.

Re: Reflections on OpenAI

#426

Post by teiferer »

pegasus wrote: post #402
Xenoamorphous wrote: post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you sincerely think it’s ok that everybody takes care of the kid but the father because he’s rich and can afford multiple nannies? There’s not much context to miss when TFA has this: > The Codex sprint was probably the hardest I've worked in nearly a decade. Most nights were up until 11 or midnight. Waking up to a newborn at 5:30 every morning. Heading to the office again at 7a. Working most weekends.

Does a household necessarily need multiple nannies to raise a baby? Grandparents might be willing to help and if there's some house help as well, no nannies might be needed at all, as long as the wife is happy with the arrangement, which I don't find impossible to entertain. Yeah, wealth allows for more freedom of choice, that's always been the case, but this type of arrangement is not unheard of across social classe…

A billionaire asking the grandparents for help with a newborn instead of spending some dollars for that help? C'mon, have you ever had a newborn?

Re: Reflections on OpenAI

#427

Post by menaerus »

imiric wrote: post #382
criddell wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The "G" in AGI stands for "General", which a dog obviously can't showcase. That isn't obvious to me at all. If you don't like the dog analogy, lets try another: Does a human toddler qualify as having general intelligence?

Hhmm good point. I would say... yes. But with the strong caveat that when used within the context of AGI, the individual/system should be able to showcase that intelligence, and the results should be comparable to those of a neurotypical adult human. Both a dog and a toddler can show signs of intelligence when compared to individuals of their similar nature, but not to an adult human, which is the criteria for AGI. T…

> I don't think that a system that underperforms the average neurotypical adult human in "most" cognitive tasks would constitute AGI

What makes you say that it underperforms? I ask because evidence strongly suggests that it is actually vice-versa - AI models currently outperform humans in most of the tasks.

Re: Reflections on OpenAI

#428

Post by uh_uh »

lz400 wrote: post #407
uh_uh wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't actually believe it's true, I think it's pure hype and LLMs won't even approximate AGI. Not sure how you can say this so confidently. Many would argue they're already pretty close, at least on a short time horizon.

I mean, they're wrong? LLMs don't have agency, don't learn, don't do anything except react to prompts really.

What agentic tools have you tried?

Re: Reflections on OpenAI

#429

Post by rendx »

xandrius wrote: post #338
47282847 wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do know that early bonding experiences of newborns are crucial for their lifelong development? It reads like satire, or, if serious, plain child maltreatment.

Pushing it a bit there, aren't we?

“Child abuse or maltreatment constitutes all forms of physical and/or emotional ill-treatment, sexual abuse, neglect or negligent treatment or commercial or other exploitation, resulting in actual or potential harm to the child’s health, survival, development or dignity […] Neglect includes the failure to provide for the development of the child in all spheres: health, education, emotional development, nutrition, shelter and safe living conditions.”

Source: World Health Organization, Child maltreatment, Fact sheet, 2020 https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/child-maltr...

“The term ‘child abuse and neglect’ means, at a minimum, any recent act or failure to act on the part of a parent or caretaker, which results in death, serious physical or emotional harm, sexual abuse or exploitation, or an act or failure to act which presents an imminent risk of serious harm. This includes emotional neglect such as “extreme or bizarre forms of punishment, deliberate cruelty or rejection, or the failure to provide the necessary psychological nurturing.”

Source: U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, Child Abuse Prevention and Treatment Act (CAPTA) https://acf.gov/cb/law-regulation/child-abuse-prevention-and...

Emotional neglect includes “acts of omission, such as the failure to provide developmentally appropriate affection, attention, or emotional support.”

Source: APSAC, Practice Guidelines: The Investigation and Determination of Suspected Psychological Maltreatment of Children and Adolescents, 2017 https://apsac.org/guidelines

Re: Reflections on OpenAI

#430

Post by rrrrrrrrrrrryan »

stickfigure wrote: post #396
rrrrrrrrrrrryan wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not indifference, it's much more comically evil. Like, they're using software to identify gambling addicts on fixed incomes, to figure out how big retirees' social security checks are, and to ensure they lose the entire thing at the casino each week. They bonus out their marketing team for doing this successfully. They're using software to make sure that when a casino host's patron runs out of money and kills th…

I wouldn't know if this is a fair characterization of other companies, but it certainly isn't anything like what I observe here. If you can't name names, I'm going to guess you just made this up.

We had a few dozen customers, and "percent of wallet" (figuring out how much money they walk into the casino with vs. how much they leave with) is a standard metric in casino marketing everywhere. You can figure out their paycheck based on them coming the same day of the week and losing the same amount multiple times, and market to then to ensure they lose their whole paycheck more often.

It's trivially easy to spot gambling addicts in the data, and in markets with better protections for gambling addicts they have to approach marketing quite differently. In some places you're allowed to ban yourself from the casino, and it's super illegal for the casino to market to you, so there are tons of protections to prevent all emails, texts, phone calls from hosts, physical mailers, ads of any form from reaching you.

The suicide anecdote is what caused me to quit. I'm ashamed to admit I asked my team to use an "IsDeceased" flag in the calculation for host bonus compensation, for when a patron dies while assigned to them. After that, I tried to transfer to the non-casino corner of the business where they were trying to sell our software to sports stadiums, and when they killed that off a few months later, I left the company. This was circa 2016, at a casino in the rust belt, but I'm not going to get more specific than that.

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