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I'd rather read the prompt

claytonwramsey.com

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Re: I'd rather read the prompt

#421

Post by aniforprez »

godelski wrote: post #398
MengerSponge wrote: post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is, famously, why nobody gets a degree in fine arts. (/s) Your piano teacher does not give a diploma because she is not offering a university education. If she worked with a few other experts and they designed a coordinated curriculum and shepherded students through it over the course of two to four years, and documented that process to the point where they could file with an accrediting agency, then she could i…

> then she could issue a degree in piano. It's worth noting, plenty of universities do this. You can get a degree "in piano".

Yes they did actually say that. They go into the process of accreditation that would result in a person or institute being able to give a degree "in piano"

Re: I'd rather read the prompt

#422

Post by la64710 »

sn9 wrote: post #221

> I should hope that the purpose of a class writing exercise is not to create an artifact of text but force the student to think; a language model produces the former, not the latter. It's been incredibly blackpilling seeing how many intelligent professionals and academics don't understand this, especially in education and academia. They see work as the mere production of output, without ever thinking about how that…

Actually in real world AIs are doing great and continuosly accelerating and augmenting human efforts to solve open ended problems. Academic institutions should help students embrace AI tools and not just penalize them for using it.

Re: I'd rather read the prompt

#423

Post by polpenn »

Here’s something I sometimes do to avoid boring content when using LLMs: I type out what it gives me and tweak it as I go instead of copy/pasting directly.

It helps me spot the bits that feel flat or don’t add much, so I can cut or rework them—while still getting the benefit of the LLM’s idea generation.

Re: I'd rather read the prompt

#424

Post by animal_spirits »

rohansood15 wrote: post #400
ChadNauseam wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If students went to college only to learn, colleges wouldn't bother giving diplomas. Compare: My piano teacher doesn't give diplomas because none of her students would care, her students actually want to learn. When my piano teacher cancels class, I am disappointed because I wanted to learn. My piano teacher doesn't need to threaten me with bad grades to get me to practice outside of class (analogous to homework), be…

Students want the diploma because it has value. It has value because a student can only get it by learning and problem-solving. If students find a way to get a diploma without doing the work, it will soon be worth less than the paper on which it is printed.

Further, if a student can get a diploma without work, then the diploma does not have value anymore. If diplomas are no longer valuable, the signal they provide in the labor market will turn into noise.

If employers no longer look for the diploma-signal in an employee, what will be the reason an employer will hire an employee?

I think this story will become true, and society will radically shift into one where critical thinking skills will actually be the only skills employers look for in employees, since the grunt work can be automated.

What becomes the signal then? Will we shift back into apprenticeship based employment? How do potential laborers display their critical thinking skills apart from displaying them in person?

Re: I'd rather read the prompt

#425

Post by 7bit »

rohansood15 wrote: post #400
ChadNauseam wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If students went to college only to learn, colleges wouldn't bother giving diplomas. Compare: My piano teacher doesn't give diplomas because none of her students would care, her students actually want to learn. When my piano teacher cancels class, I am disappointed because I wanted to learn. My piano teacher doesn't need to threaten me with bad grades to get me to practice outside of class (analogous to homework), be…

Students want the diploma because it has value. It has value because a student can only get it by learning and problem-solving. If students find a way to get a diploma without doing the work, it will soon be worth less than the paper on which it is printed.

> It has value because a student can only get it by learning and problem-solving.

No. It has value, because companies value it. It sets the starting point for your first salary and then for every salary negotiation moving forward.

As someone who did not go to university, but has the same knowledge self-taught I can tell you that this piece of paper would have opened so many doors and made life so much easier. It took me 15 years to get a salary, that people get with the piece of paper after graduating. And not because it took me 15 years to reach that level of knowledge. I had that by the time the other graduated.

I had a friend who always cheated in school, and now he works for a big car company and earned a fuck ton of money.

Life is unfair and companies only care about the paper your diploma is printed on. If students would ask me for advice, I would tell them to cheat whenever possible.

Re: I'd rather read the prompt

#426

Post by lesuorac »

bluefirebrand wrote: post #291
deadbabe wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someday, LLMs are going to cost actual serious money to use and people will have “LLM bills” to pay every month just to have some semblance of a brain at work. Maybe a portion of salary can just be deducted directly from a paycheck to pay for LLM tools.

Companies will have to provide the LLM just like retail stores have to provide cash registers for cashiers to use

Eh, I think this is going to be an outdated take.

Employees are increasingly expected to use personal devices in work settings.

Re: I'd rather read the prompt

#427

Post by bluGill »

mschuster91 wrote: post #364
palata wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm there for the degree. If I wanted to learn and engage with material, I could save $60,000 I would argue that if it costs $60,000, both your education system and the recruitment in those companies that require this degree are broken. It's not the case in all countries though. Not that it is your fault, just stating the obvious.

> I would argue that if it costs $60,000, both your education system and the recruitment in those companies that require this degree are broken. Meh, academic degrees don't come for free, someone has to pay for universities, staff and other expenses. In the US it's everyone for themselves by student loans that can't be discharged in bankruptcies, in Europe it's the tax payers. The problem is, the ones profiting from…

There is also nobody cares about low prices but you can brag about how exclusive you are with high prices. One univertity near me automatically gives everyone a 40% scholarship - which is to say they have inflated their sticker price.

Re: I'd rather read the prompt

#428

Post by dullcrisp »

mschuster91 wrote: post #364
palata wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm there for the degree. If I wanted to learn and engage with material, I could save $60,000 I would argue that if it costs $60,000, both your education system and the recruitment in those companies that require this degree are broken. It's not the case in all countries though. Not that it is your fault, just stating the obvious.

> I would argue that if it costs $60,000, both your education system and the recruitment in those companies that require this degree are broken. Meh, academic degrees don't come for free, someone has to pay for universities, staff and other expenses. In the US it's everyone for themselves by student loans that can't be discharged in bankruptcies, in Europe it's the tax payers. The problem is, the ones profiting from…

So like a payroll tax specific to jobs that require higher education?

Re: I'd rather read the prompt

#429

Post by gopher_space »

mplanchard wrote: post #284
jrmg wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The work this degree will credential you for is so is so disconnected from the areas of study in your degree program - presumably in the same field as the job - that the majority of the things you might learn would not be valuable? I can’t imagine this in my own life. I use concrete things and ways of thinking and working I learned in my CS degree _all the time_.

Heck my degree was in biochemistry, and now I’m a programmer, but I still feel like I am constantly using skills I developed in school. The scientific method and good test design transcend all sciences.

Same deal, went back for an Anthro degree but jumped back into programming when Ted Cruz killed research. I use that degree every day of my life.

Re: I'd rather read the prompt

#430

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

soerxpso wrote: post #253
sn9 wrote: post #221

> I should hope that the purpose of a class writing exercise is not to create an artifact of text but force the student to think; a language model produces the former, not the latter. It's been incredibly blackpilling seeing how many intelligent professionals and academics don't understand this, especially in education and academia. They see work as the mere production of output, without ever thinking about how that…

> I should hope that the purpose of a class writing exercise is not to create an artifact of text but force the student to think I'm there for the degree. If I wanted to learn and engage with material, I could save $60,000 and do that online for free, probably more efficiently. The purpose of a class writing exercise is to get the university to give me the degree, which I cannot do by actually learning the material (…

The purpose of the writing exercise is to produce a positive correlation between the possession of a degree and the skills that high-paying white collar jobs value. I don't blame students for not knowing that, or for not having the outside perspective to care. But positive signals of job competence are hard to come by, employers don't just blindly accept them despite what people like to say, and it's going to suck for new graduates if this one is eliminated.
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