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The Friendship Recession: The lost art of connecting

happiness.hks.harvard.edu

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Re: The Friendship Recession: The lost art of connecting

#421

Post by ryandrake »

jvvw wrote: post #363
ryandrake wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The article talks about how it’s more of a younger generation phenomenon suggesting older generations still maintain their friendships Yea, this tracks my observations. A lot of adults make connections in their community through their kids and kids' friends. Kids pick their friends and their parents and guardians just go along for the ride, so when the kids play together, it kind of forces the parents to meet and i…

This sounds weird to me. What's the context? Toddler group? Play date? Playground? Also as somebody said, if you are male which from your username I guess you are, then that will change the dynamic - it will be easier for an older person to make conversation without there being any worries of sending the wrong message. If there are lots of children playing together then parents aren't always social but at a play date…

A couple example scenarios (tween kids, suburban setting: which are other variables that probably matter), ordered from least to most weird (IMO):

- Public park, where kid just spontaneously starts playing with other kids, and parents are temporarily, and more or less randomly associating: In this case, I can sorta see that maybe people just doesn't want to talk to a total random person in a park. Fine. Not my style but it's forgivable--they don't know if I'm deranged or dangerous.

- Public park, or commercial indoor play place where the kids pre-arranged to play together with known friends: This is where it starts getting weird. We all deliberately bring the kids, the kids find each other and go off to play, and at that point, some parents will just totally ignore the other parents, and other parents slink away over to a corner with their phones where they won't have to interact. In these cases I end up just chilling with the grandparents.

- Private setting, kids pre-arranged to come over to our house to play together: This is to me the wildest case, and where the different generations of parents behave totally differently. The youngest parents will just drop the kid off at the end of the driveway and speed away in their car, not even entering our property. The semi-young parents will drive the kid up to our house and drop them off, but leave without coming up to the door or anything. The older generation (grandparents) typically drives up, exits their car, comes up to the door with the kid, and we say hi, exchange pleasantries, and then off they go. It really does seem like socialization norms are changing generation to generation.

Re: The Friendship Recession: The lost art of connecting

#422

Post by queenkjuul »

01HNNWZ0MV43FF wrote: post #175
dazzawazza wrote: post #28

I love heavy metal. So I go to metal pubs. I meet people, we talk and listen to each other. I've been talking to the same people for 30+ years but I meet new people EVERY time I venture out. I may see them again, I may not. Who cares? We lend PHYSICAL copies of albums, video games and books to one another. This increases trust, knowledge and love for one another. We share stories about all sorts of things. We create…

I never heard of such a thing as a metal pub. Not in small town USA anyway :(

Proper small towns no, but my old "small city" (<250k) had a pretty thriving metal scene (but not really one particular bar they centered on)

Re: The Friendship Recession: The lost art of connecting

#423

Post by queenkjuul »

bentt wrote: post #201
oddthink wrote: post #56

I don't really get where people with kids found these 6.5 hrs / wk to spend on friendships, or even the quoted current averages of 4 hrs / wk. On a workday, there isn't much time. I roll out of bed at 6:30, get the kids up and fed breakfast and out the door. I finally get actually working at 8:30-9:30, depending on if I exercise or not. Stop work in the 5:30-6 range, switch into making dinner, getting kids to eat din…

One technique that I think needs to come back into fashion, which was familiar to us Gen Xers, is to drag your kids along when socializing for you. Instead of prioritizing their play dates and sitting in the corner on our phones, we should be bringing the kids to our friend's house and they can wander around and be bored while we sit and talk as friends. The problem we have as a parenting culture is that we're not co…

Yeah I used to hang out with my friends while their kids were around, it was fun to get to know their kids honestly, and if we were lucky we could get the kids to bed and then have a drink on the porch before calling it a night.

Re: The Friendship Recession: The lost art of connecting

#424

Post by AbstractH24 »

torben-friis wrote: post #34
dm03514 wrote: post #16

For the us, I feel like it’s late stage individualism. This is what happens I think when people prioritize themselves over their communities, I think we have less dependence on our communities than ever thanks to the internet and being able to physically avoid community. We have less interaction than before. We can order grocery pickup and not even have to be physically around people for basic life tasks. We order ne…

It’s not only lack of dependence, but also lack of idleness. Most of my friend interactions would come from things like having a moment with nothing to do in the bus, realizing I have no particular plans this weekend and reaching out to a couple friends to see if they’re available. Now those moments are instantly drowned by opening instagram before a thought bubbles up. And when the weekend eventually comes and there…

> It’s not only lack of dependence, but also lack of idleness.

While I enjoy listening to podcasts I recognize how much its reduced the amount I'm idle. Particularly while commuting.

Re: The Friendship Recession: The lost art of connecting

#425

Post by queenkjuul »

astura wrote: post #265
rsynnott wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> On Reddit some dude was trying to argue that an individual needs $70,000 a year in fixed expenses just to live. Bare minimum. ... Wait, how the hell did they figure that out? Did they itemise it? Was most of it just going on a very expensive mortgage or something? Are they including retirement savings? (I've no rent or mortgage, due to having been very lucky with employer equity, but I'm not sure I could spend 60k…

Yeah, I can't find the post again but they itemized it according to what they thought was normal basics. I remember there was large car payments. OI have been driving for more than 25 years, I've had a car payment for maybe 10 months in those 25 years. To me a car payment is a massive luxury, to this dude it's a minimum basic.

Frighteningly common attitude amongst Americans, including my parents. Never made sense to me. I get that American cities are basically designed to require a car, but that doesn't mean you need to finance or lease something brand new all the time.

Re: The Friendship Recession: The lost art of connecting

#426

Post by derwiki »

sathackr wrote: post #377
swiftcoder wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or learn how to cook and lay your own tile? One doesn't have to live in an ad campaign for the 70s just to save a few bucks

That's too stressful

Cooking is closer to stress relief for me

Re: The Friendship Recession: The lost art of connecting

#427

Post by rsynnott »

astura wrote: post #265
rsynnott wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> On Reddit some dude was trying to argue that an individual needs $70,000 a year in fixed expenses just to live. Bare minimum. ... Wait, how the hell did they figure that out? Did they itemise it? Was most of it just going on a very expensive mortgage or something? Are they including retirement savings? (I've no rent or mortgage, due to having been very lucky with employer equity, but I'm not sure I could spend 60k…

Yeah, I can't find the post again but they itemized it according to what they thought was normal basics. I remember there was large car payments. OI have been driving for more than 25 years, I've had a car payment for maybe 10 months in those 25 years. To me a car payment is a massive luxury, to this dude it's a minimum basic.

Huh, I would argue that someone who has 70k after tax per year to spend generally shouldn't be buying a car with debt _at all_; they should be able to afford to save and buy one outright.

Re: The Friendship Recession: The lost art of connecting

#428

Post by watwut »

_1tem wrote: post #412

One curiosity I've noticed about close friendships through religious communities compared to other modern circles of "friendship": it is largely independent of age, socioeconomic status, and stage of life. In every other friendship circle I've been a part of, the basis has either been age (school/college), economics (work), extended family, or skill (sports and hobbies like motorbikes). Some friendships seem to be ma…

They happen to coincide and support the most destructive with conservative tendencies and goals. The friendship there exiat on basis of common ennemy. Common ennemy put people together, but overall they are harming us all.

Re: The Friendship Recession: The lost art of connecting

#429

Post by bendigedig »

redczar wrote: post #146
bendigedig wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But there is a world outside of the USA and some of the same problems are happening there too.

Don’t know about other countries. The point you made is relevant and interesting.

Thank you kindly, good sir.

Re: The Friendship Recession: The lost art of connecting

#430

Post by trod1234 »

dm03514 wrote: post #16

For the us, I feel like it’s late stage individualism. This is what happens I think when people prioritize themselves over their communities, I think we have less dependence on our communities than ever thanks to the internet and being able to physically avoid community. We have less interaction than before. We can order grocery pickup and not even have to be physically around people for basic life tasks. We order ne…

Older generations who received a proper education recognize the dangers, but are often unable to communicate it effectively to others that have been indoctrinated during their formative years.

Specifically it relates to what putting your ability to communicate with others into malicious hands represents. If you allow third-parties to dictate what you see, you'll never be able to make correct decisions based on reality. This distorted reality, or more aptly called distorted reflective appraisal. Reflected appraisal is inherent in our ability to form culture, society, and personal identity. The distortion takes advantage of that, and it happens at a pre-awareness level. Our internal psychology warps to it without us recognizing it, to retain internal consistency.

When you are raised to believe something is impossible, you discard anything to the contrary unless you've experienced direct and extreme personal loss associated to it.

Most people today earnestly believe that they make their own minds up about things and nothing external can change that, which is untrue, but places perceptual blinders so they can't see it no matter how much you may point it out.

Most dependents are unable to adapt after being tortured (which occurs during indoctrination).

The social environment has been shifting towards isolation because that's one of the main elements needed for torture, which is the imposition of psychological stress to induce involuntary hypnotic states.

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