Price seems to be creeping up. Car and Driver says $28K.[1] That may be related to "incentives".
This could be very popular with companies that need small fleets of pickup trucks. The ones that have company logos on the side.
A $20k American-made electric pickup with no paint, no stereo, no screen
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Re: A $20k American-made electric pickup with no paint, no stereo, no screen
#422Earlier quoted context omitted.
Most small SUVs should be fine though. You switched between wood shavings and hay bales, but I reliably fit 7 hay bales in a 2005 Saturn Vue (wife always managed to get 9 in there), which means that 10 bales of shavings should not be a problem since they're much smaller. TBH, I think a minivan would make it even easier.
I use a 2018 Subaru Forester to move stuff like this, with the seats folded flat the cargo space is decent. You can add some cargo boxes on the back trailer hitch as well. The dream is a Pacifica minivan - they make a hybrid version.
The Pacifica and Sienna (and probably Odyssey as well) are absolute garbage for hauling crap. If that is what you are looking for, get a used one from the prior generation.
Re: A $20k American-made electric pickup with no paint, no stereo, no screen
#423Earlier quoted context omitted.
> - Lack of a mobile app. Minimalist design is great, but I still want an app to manage charging and be alerted to any vehicle issues. Noooooooooo! No apps, please ! Finally a car not tethered to and dependent on your phone, and we already have our first request to app-ify it! EDIT: Ughhh, according to the video that another user posted, it looks like there's an app, and yes, "updates" go through it :( > - Lack of go…
>Noooooooooo! No apps, please! Finally a car not tethered to and dependent on your phone, and we already have our first request to app-ify it! What car is tied to your phone? A mustang mach-e, for instance, does not require your phone at all. It has a FOB for opening the doors and starting it, you can program the charging times from the in-car screen. The app is optional, exactly as it should be. This car DESPERATELY…
> DESPERATELY is going to need an app when it comes to charging whether you know it or not
I don't own an EV. What for? Do you really need more than a button or two and some leds?
Re: A $20k American-made electric pickup with no paint, no stereo, no screen
#424For anyone curious, if you made a similarly sized gas-powered pickup with an i4 engine, it would be penalized more than a full-sized pickup for being too fuel inefficient, despite likely getting much better mileage than an F-150 because, since 2011, bigger cars are held to a lesser standard by CAFE[1]. 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_average_fuel_economy...
This is largely why all the vehicles around us have become supersized. It's completely idiotic.
Anybody know how it got to this point? It can't be because of regulatory capture, right? I don't think small cars are getting made for the US because of SUV mania and something like a 67 MPG requirement for the Honda Fit based on it's build.
Re: A $20k American-made electric pickup with no paint, no stereo, no screen
#425Earlier quoted context omitted.
To be fair, a lot of farms need a big-ass pickup truck because they are always towing horses to go to shows or trailheads. We have 70 beautiful acres and a network of trails my wife built that were inspired by Het Vondelpark in Amsterdam. [1] If everything goes right we trailer in a horse once and never have to trailer it out although some horses don't fit in or have to go to the vet. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wik…
If the grocery store parking lot is any indication, farming is the number one profession in America. All farmers can have their big trucks and still regulate out the other 99% of the 22-foot monsters used to commute to offices.
I've found this to be very regional. There are parts of the country where there are a lot fewer trucks and most appear to actually see a meaningful amount of real-truck use. There are other parts where like 40% of the goddamn cars on the road are pristine, bloated modern trucks that are just used as commuter vehicles.
Re: A $20k American-made electric pickup with no paint, no stereo, no screen
#426Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's overly reductive. 1. Poorer people tend to drive older vehicles, so if you solely encourage higher fuel economies by taxing carbon emissions, then the tax is (at least short-term) regressive. 2. You can work around #1 by applying incentives for manufacturers to make more efficient cars should lead any carbon tax 3. If you just reward companies based on fleet-average fuel economy without regard to vehicle size,…
All carbon tax is inherently regressive but that's also trivially fixable. Make it revenue neutral and give every citizen a flat portion of the total collected revenue. Bam, it is now progressive , since on average richer people will spend more on fuel (and therefore the tax) even though it is likely a much smaller percentage of their spending. Every single one of your ideas has problems that are solved by a carbon t…
I see the carbon tax as a 'stick' (to penalize undesired behaviour, in this case emitting carbon), but it needs to be coupled with a 'carrot' to encourage the desired behaviours.
I'd like to see a carbon tax coupled with massive investments to make public transit legitimately good. There are too many places where there is no viable alternative to driving, a carbon tax will unnecessarily punish those people without giving them a reasonable alternative.
Re: A $20k American-made electric pickup with no paint, no stereo, no screen
#427Earlier quoted context omitted.
Example #5621 that a simple carbon tax would be miles better than the complex morass of regulations we currently have.
That's overly reductive. 1. Poorer people tend to drive older vehicles, so if you solely encourage higher fuel economies by taxing carbon emissions, then the tax is (at least short-term) regressive. 2. You can work around #1 by applying incentives for manufacturers to make more efficient cars should lead any carbon tax 3. If you just reward companies based on fleet-average fuel economy without regard to vehicle size,…
Are you saying used car sales would have a carbon tax? I've never heard anyone suggest anything like that. It's just a tax on new items.
Re: A $20k American-made electric pickup with no paint, no stereo, no screen
#428I LOVE it! THIS is the kind of truck I'd be looking at to replace my 1998 Ford Ranger. Here is what could be potential deal-breakers: - Lack of a mobile app. Minimalist design is great, but I still want an app to manage charging and be alerted to any vehicle issues. - Lack of good charge management and battery conditioning. Either that, or a cheap and easy to replace battery pack. I'd really like both! - Comparable h…
Bench seats are almost certainly not coming back in modern low cost vehicles due to side impact safety regulations. They aren't _illegal_ but its extremely difficult to meet those standards with a bench configuration and ironically probably why a budget pickup is less likely to have them. Cutting those corners by not having a bench at all is an easy way to save money in the design. The hauling and towing is another o…
The problem with bench seating is not side impact but accidental steering wheel input during hard cornering. In the typical 10 and 2 hand position having your butt move makes your shoulders move, the shoulders make the hands move, and now you’re understeering. Understeering on a mountain road likely means death, and on other roads a ditch or hitting a phone pole.
Re: A $20k American-made electric pickup with no paint, no stereo, no screen
#429Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is largely why all the vehicles around us have become supersized. It's completely idiotic.
It's also who sedans and compact cars have largely ceased to exist. The vast majority of new vehicles are crossovers or _light trucks_, which aren't held to the same emission/efficiency standards.
> It's also who sedans and compact cars have largely ceased to exist.
Consumer demand is still an important factor.
Sedans and compact cars are still out there, sitting on dealer lots with reasonable prices.
Re: A $20k American-made electric pickup with no paint, no stereo, no screen
#430Earlier quoted context omitted.
Bench seats are almost certainly not coming back in modern low cost vehicles due to side impact safety regulations. They aren't _illegal_ but its extremely difficult to meet those standards with a bench configuration and ironically probably why a budget pickup is less likely to have them. Cutting those corners by not having a bench at all is an easy way to save money in the design. The hauling and towing is another o…
The rear seats of almost all new cars are bench seats though. Is side impact safety requirements the same or apply the whole side of the car? I believe airbag requirements prevent this because the middle seat would require a console mounted airbag where infotainment systems normally live
I suspect GP is misremembering why bench seating went away. Bench seats for the driver can lead to steering errors which can result in crashes.