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DeepMind releases Lyria 2 music generation model

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Re: DeepMind releases Lyria 2 music generation model

#421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The musicians of the 19th century were free to produce anything they liked. They were free to write a "Missa Solemnis" where the very silence is breathtaking, where one does not merely hear that God has died, but where one feels His rebirth. And what have they done? Have they produced in their liberty anything grander or more beautiful than the scrawling of the deaf composer? Have they summoned sounds more jubilant t…

If you stay hung up on an intellectual interpretation of what Bowie's doing, firstly you're right where he wants you, he'll play with you like a toy and in so doing, he'll have a grand time, he loved that even at times when his life was faltering. Secondly, you overlook the glee with which he collaborated with people to jointly express their humanity, and who inspired him to do this. You can read the lyrics and parse…

> I've doubtless taken more trouble than I needed to, rebutting what could have been a GPT-extruded troll of an argument, but it was fun :)

Yet failed to address even one of my contentions, which if I had to summarise them for you again are:

- Music of the 20th century falls short of music of the 19th century, and it's not particularly close.

- Having no boundaries and standards does not make for better art.

- Bowie's music cannot convey meaning or wonder because he did not believe there is any meaningful or wonderful in the universe other than him, even if he held this view "humbly".

- Bowie could not write joyful music because his world view made it impossible for him to have joy.

(quoted) The last Stoics, like Marcus Aurelius, were exactly the people who did believe in the Inner Light. Their dignity, their weariness, their sad external care for others, their incurable internal care for themselves, were all due to the Inner Light, and existed only by that dismal illumination. Notice that Marcus Aurelius insists, as such introspective moralists always do, upon small things done or undone; it is because he has not hate or love enough to make a moral revolution. He gets up early in the morning, just as our own aristocrats living the Simple Life get up early in the morning; because such altruism is much easier than stopping the games of the amphitheatre or giving the English people back their land. Marcus Aurelius is the most intolerable of human types. He is an unselfish egoist. An unselfish egoist is a man who has pride without the excuse of passion. Of all conceivable forms of enlightenment the worst is what these people call the Inner Light. Of all horrible religions the most horrible is the worship of the god within. Any one who knows any body knows how it would work; any one who knows any one from the Higher Thought Centre knows how it does work. That Jones shall worship the god within him turns out ultimately to mean that Jones shall worship Jones. Let Jones worship the sun or moon, anything rather than the Inner Light; let Jones worship cats or crocodiles, if he can find any in his street, but not the god within. Christianity came into the world firstly in order to assert with violence that a man had not only to look inwards, but to look outwards, to behold with astonishment and enthusiasm a divine company and a divine captain. The only fun of being a Christian was that a man was not left alone with the Inner Light, but definitely recognized an outer light, fair as the sun, clear as the moon, terrible as an army with banners.

Re: DeepMind releases Lyria 2 music generation model

#422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The musicians of the 19th century were free to produce anything they liked. They were free to write a "Missa Solemnis" where the very silence is breathtaking, where one does not merely hear that God has died, but where one feels His rebirth. And what have they done? Have they produced in their liberty anything grander or more beautiful than the scrawling of the deaf composer? Have they summoned sounds more jubilant t…

"Starman" is much better than "Missa Solemnis". Due all my respect to Beethoven.

Your contention would have been more believable if Bowie actually believed the star man he sang about was real. He did not. He did not believe that there was a starman waiting in the sky who told us not to blow it 'Cause he knows it's all worthwhile. Bowie did not believe it's all worthwhile.

(quoted) Once in the world’s history men did believe that the stars were dancing to the tune of their temples, and they danced as men have never danced since. With this old pagan eudaemonism the sage of the Rubaiyat has quite as little to do as he has with any Christian variety. He is no more a Bacchanal than he is a saint. Dionysus and his church was grounded on a serious joie-de-vivre like that of Walt Whitman. Dionysus made wine, not a medicine, but a sacrament. Jesus Christ also made wine, not a medicine, but a sacrament. But Omar Khayyam makes it, not a sacrament, but a medicine. He feasts because life is not joyful; he revels because he is not glad. “Drink,” he says, “for you know not whence you come nor why. Drink, for you know not when you go nor where. Drink, because the stars are cruel and the world as idle as a humming-top. Drink, because there is nothing worth trusting, nothing worth fighting for. Drink, because all things are lapsed in a base equality and an evil peace.” So he stands offering us the cup in his hand. And at the high altar of Christianity stands another figure, in whose hand also is the cup of the vine. “Drink” he says “for the whole world is as red as this wine, with the crimson of the love and wrath of God. Drink, for the trumpets are blowing for battle and this is the stirrup-cup. Drink, for this my blood of the new testament that is shed for you. Drink, for I know of whence you come and why. Drink, for I know of when you go and where.”

Re: DeepMind releases Lyria 2 music generation model

#423

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you stay hung up on an intellectual interpretation of what Bowie's doing, firstly you're right where he wants you, he'll play with you like a toy and in so doing, he'll have a grand time, he loved that even at times when his life was faltering. Secondly, you overlook the glee with which he collaborated with people to jointly express their humanity, and who inspired him to do this. You can read the lyrics and parse…

> I've doubtless taken more trouble than I needed to, rebutting what could have been a GPT-extruded troll of an argument, but it was fun :) Yet failed to address even one of my contentions, which if I had to summarise them for you again are: - Music of the 20th century falls short of music of the 19th century, and it's not particularly close. - Having no boundaries and standards does not make for better art. - Bowie'…

> - Bowie could not write joyful music because his world view made it impossible for him to have joy.

> [Marcus Aurelius, Christianity, Inner Light stuff]

Been a while since I've seen someone suggest an outwardly healthy adult might be incapable of one of the standard human emotions.

Anhedonia is a thing, but it's rare and associated with clinical depression.

Given your choice of quote, would it be fair to suggest that you believe that only Christians can truly experience joy?

Re: DeepMind releases Lyria 2 music generation model

#424
post #423

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've doubtless taken more trouble than I needed to, rebutting what could have been a GPT-extruded troll of an argument, but it was fun :) Yet failed to address even one of my contentions, which if I had to summarise them for you again are: - Music of the 20th century falls short of music of the 19th century, and it's not particularly close. - Having no boundaries and standards does not make for better art. - Bowie'…

> - Bowie could not write joyful music because his world view made it impossible for him to have joy. > [Marcus Aurelius, Christianity, Inner Light stuff] Been a while since I've seen someone suggest an outwardly healthy adult might be incapable of one of the standard human emotions. Anhedonia is a thing, but it's rare and associated with clinical depression. Given your choice of quote, would it be fair to suggest th…

I don't think you can be joyful if you think the universe means nothing, or at least nothing but what you yourself impose on it.

If we are to be truly joyful, we must believe that there is some eternal joy in the nature of things. Bowie did not believe this.

Re: DeepMind releases Lyria 2 music generation model

#425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Guess who wins in a war where one side has killer drone swarms with thermal vision, and the other one doesn't? The only way to win this fight is to embrace the tech and put it to good use, not to shun it.

If “put it to good use” means the value of human labor drops to zero, and everyone loses their job to ASI, then violent resistance is inevitable.

It definitely is (and I would encourage that even).

But such resistance cannot be luddite if it actually wants to win. Therefore, its goal cannot be "no AI", but rather "AI used for the benefit of society".

Re: DeepMind releases Lyria 2 music generation model

#426
post #423

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> - Bowie could not write joyful music because his world view made it impossible for him to have joy. > [Marcus Aurelius, Christianity, Inner Light stuff] Been a while since I've seen someone suggest an outwardly healthy adult might be incapable of one of the standard human emotions. Anhedonia is a thing, but it's rare and associated with clinical depression. Given your choice of quote, would it be fair to suggest th…

I don't think you can be joyful if you think the universe means nothing, or at least nothing but what you yourself impose on it. If we are to be truly joyful, we must believe that there is some eternal joy in the nature of things. Bowie did not believe this.

I can't tell if that's "yes because …" or "no actually I mean …"; but in either case it is droll to witness someone disregarding a human artist the way many disregard AI.

Re: DeepMind releases Lyria 2 music generation model

#427
post #426

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think you can be joyful if you think the universe means nothing, or at least nothing but what you yourself impose on it. If we are to be truly joyful, we must believe that there is some eternal joy in the nature of things. Bowie did not believe this.

I can't tell if that's "yes because …" or "no actually I mean …"; but in either case it is droll to witness someone disregarding a human artist the way many disregard AI.

Bowie disregarded everything but himself. It's not difficult to disregard this outlook on the world, because it is not even an outlook on the world, it's more akin to a denial of the world.

"The man who destroys himself creates the universe. To the humble man, and to the humble man alone, the sun is really a sun; to the humble man, and to the humble man alone, the sea is really a sea. When he looks at all the faces in the street, he does not only realize that men are alive, he realizes with a dramatic pleasure that they are not dead."

Yet, Bowie could not ever quite make a convincing case that he believed other people are not dead, or at least that their existence was anything more significant than their non-existence because for him, all significance came from him and him alone.

Re: DeepMind releases Lyria 2 music generation model

#429
post #426

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't tell if that's "yes because …" or "no actually I mean …"; but in either case it is droll to witness someone disregarding a human artist the way many disregard AI.

Bowie disregarded everything but himself. It's not difficult to disregard this outlook on the world, because it is not even an outlook on the world, it's more akin to a denial of the world. "The man who destroys himself creates the universe. To the humble man, and to the humble man alone, the sun is really a sun; to the humble man, and to the humble man alone, the sea is really a sea. When he looks at all the faces i…

Well, then he gave up cocaine and had lots of happy years of further creativity. I think you're mistaking the Thin White Duke for the guy who survived portraying the Thin White Duke. I guess he's throwing darts in haters' eyes, too :)

Re: DeepMind releases Lyria 2 music generation model

#430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not sure what your scare quotes mean, but nurses don’t work for free and traveling nurses in particular make good money. “Forced labor” originally meant things like slave labor, but some people have it backwards. I think anyone will agree that being able to walk away is important for negotiations. How much you’re paid has little to do with that. Having alternative job offers or the savings to do without a job for…

There's many incentives encouraging people to work in America. Many of them are positive ones (pride, a sense of community, ambition) and many of them are negative (inability to pay rent, health insurance, food otherwise). A lot of terrible jobs are required in our society to be done by people from negative encouragement. The belief that all jobs can be done purely through positive encouragement I think is potentiall…

I broadly agree that the economy works that way, but I’m somewhat doubtful that “running on desperation” is quite the right way to describe it. It seems a bit reductive.

Consider joining the military. Most Americans would never consider enlisting. There are people who consider possibly getting shot at or killed to be worth it. Maybe some of them were desperate when they joined, but often not.

Similarly, people who decide to immigrate to the US have a variety of motivations. Is hoping for a better life desperate? It depends.

Sometimes people regret their choices in life, which means they had choices and the other choice wasn’t obviously worse, in retrospect.

More generally, there are a lot of ways that people can get into situations that feel like a trap, and a bad job could be one of them.

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