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Don't force your kids to do math

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Re: Don't force your kids to do math

#421

Post by globular-toast »

tenacious_tuna wrote: post #416
nh23423fefe wrote: post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

imagining that alpha is what stops people from being good at math is a useless take. why pretend that such a low bar could prevent anyone from understanding? its some fake generosity towards "newcomers" that is completely unwarranted. math notation is by and for professional mathematicians. are you really saying that "let function(argument has type RealNumber) has type RealNumber be a function from a real number argu…

> why pretend that such a low bar could prevent anyone from understanding? I don't know why this is a startling take. If you encode your ideas in an unfamilar symbology, of course that's going to make it more difficult for someone who isn't familiar with the space. I'm not arguing that we should teach real analysis this way, or any other high level math class. I'm only contesting GP's comment that there is NO value t…

If there was some better notation that allowed biology people to understand calculus more easily, what do you imagine they'd do with it?

It's hard for me to imagine it without any special notation. It makes me think of the general relativity in words of four characters or less that was posted recently. Sure, it might be possible, but does it really make it easier to understand? Understanding is normally built up in layers. We learn things using big words because that makes it easier than learning with small words. And we learn maths with funny symbols because it makes it easier than learning it with words (or colours or mime or other things you already know).

Re: Don't force your kids to do math

#422

Post by margalabargala »

elteto wrote: post #408
margalabargala wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And if the parent cannot find a single way to prevent the constant use of the screens beyond simply packing the day with activities, that says more about the parent than the kid. If the only way a teenager knows how to make good choices is through outright avoidance of situations where a poor choice might arise, then they don't know how to make good choices.

Do you have kids? Lots of assumptions from someone who doesn’t seem to be a parent.

I do, they are younger than teenaged, but still.

Re: Don't force your kids to do math

#423

Post by [deleted] »

hollandheese wrote: post #359
notesinthefield wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish I couldve excluded everything past basic algebra and hopped right to statistics at a young age - I *loved* everything about the practicality of it, how it explained tangible relationships and illuminated the world. Algebra and calculus were so un-engaging I had those teachers calling me everything but a stupid child.

Except you can't really understand statistics without calculus.

[deleted]

Re: Don't force your kids to do math

#424

Post by lukan »

margalabargala wrote: post #410
lukan wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Erm, english is not my first language, but I believe, savage stands for uncivilised person. So exactly what I wanted to talk about, when referencing "natural education". I did not talk about any ethnicity at all.

Talking about a specific ethnicity is not required to be racist in English. If a person were to use the word "Nazi" to describe any person who lives in an area that was Nazi-controlled in 1942, this would be roughly equivalent in terms of the connotation and in terms of the reasonable indignation the recipient might feel. Furthermore, if you didn't have a specific ethnicity in mind, then when you're going off about "…

"Or alternately, if ethnicity isn't what you're using as your basis for calling groups of people and their children "uncivilized", what is?"

Culture.

And this debate is equally fascinating and frustrating.

I simply spoke of generic nomadic uncivilised hunters.

And not at all in a bad way, just to illustrate a point. Because to my knowledge yes, nomadic hunting cultures do have similarities. Education seems to be one of those.

Feel free to provide counter examples.

Re: Don't force your kids to do math

#425

Post by lukan »

guerrilla wrote: post #409
lukan wrote: post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, seriously. I did not talk about any ethnicity at all. How exactly can I made a racist statement here? Or were you simply trying to say, for you the term "savage" is strongly connected to racists and therefore inappropriate to use?

Calling indigenous people "savage" in English is almost universally considered racist.

Well, or just in your bubble?

Besides, I called arbitary savage people savage. No concrete person that might feel insulted. And savage .. is not an insult in my bubble anyway btw.

Re: Don't force your kids to do math

#426

Post by martindbp »

blitzar wrote: post #145
tgsovlerkhgsel wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the kid isn't enjoying the piano lessons, will forcing them to do it for 20 minutes every day really be beneficial? Sure, they will now be able to do something - something that they absolutely hate... (also, why is it always piano that parents try to force on children?)

> they will now be able to do something - something that they absolutely hate A valuable life skill if you want to ever have a job or get paid.

They already learn this by being in school, no need for more of such "learning opportunities" in their free time.

Re: Don't force your kids to do math

#427

Post by timcobb »

ozim wrote: post #420
timcobb wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> why does a child need to break through a plateau at anything? Exactly! Why? The few things I do better than most people are things I've stayed engaged with during those plateaus because I wanted to, not because someone else told me I should or that it was important. The people who respond positively to being forced into things generally end up not knowing who _they_ are, and end up generally unwell people.

I feel false dichotomy here - you assume helping child to go through plateau must be forced. It doesn’t have to be and some people need a little bit of help - you didn’t and that’s great. Conversely there will be kids that need to be forced or nothing good will come out of them - there will be kids that should be left alone because pushing them will just break whatever they should be doing. It is delicate balance and…

Yeah I didn't mean to suggest this dichotomy. And I agree with you. Just not sure how much you can force people, even the ones who "need" to be forced. Or what "good" will come out of that. Good in my mind is a person who knows themselves, is functional, and is comfortable in their own skin. That is, a person who won't lead a life of total suffering, which seems pretty common!

Re: Don't force your kids to do math

#428

Post by guerrilla »

lukan wrote: post #425
guerrilla wrote: post #409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Calling indigenous people "savage" in English is almost universally considered racist.

Well, or just in your bubble? Besides, I called arbitary savage people savage. No concrete person that might feel insulted. And savage .. is not an insult in my bubble anyway btw.

Like you said, you're not a native English speaker.

Re: Don't force your kids to do math

#429

Post by notesinthefield »

hollandheese wrote: post #359
notesinthefield wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish I couldve excluded everything past basic algebra and hopped right to statistics at a young age - I *loved* everything about the practicality of it, how it explained tangible relationships and illuminated the world. Algebra and calculus were so un-engaging I had those teachers calling me everything but a stupid child.

Except you can't really understand statistics without calculus.

*statistical theory notice I had a heavy emphasis on my love of practicality…which theory, to me, is not.

Re: Don't force your kids to do math

#430

Post by Viliam1234 »

mschuster91 wrote: post #275
Viliam1234 wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I taught at a nice middle-class school, so most of the problems you mention were not relevant there. And yet, it seemed like half of the kids' families were either recently divorced or in the process of divorce. I couldn't really blame those kids for not paying attention to school. And this seemed like the best case, so probably at most places it gets much worse. Education has a problem with scaling, especially at th…

> Education has a problem with scaling, especially at the elementary level. Not if you actually provide the money. Europe gets this down decently well - although I'll admit, in rural areas in Germany we got some serious consolidation issues thanks to urban flight. But at least our teachers are well paid government jobs and the job is decently attractive.

Scaling is not just about money. It's also about teachers. You can have hundreds of great teachers, but if the entire educational system requires tens of thousands of teachers, you will end up with many mediocre ones, because you simply don't have tens of thousands of great ones.
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