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xAI has acquired X, xAI now valued at $80B

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Re: xAI has acquired X, xAI now valued at $80B

#421

Post by timewizard »

rayiner wrote: post #398
timewizard wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"did not act unlawfully" and "paid a fair price" are two entirely different things.

They are, but in the relevant Delaware law the latter point matters when there is a potential conflict of interest, so the Delaware court ruled on that.

The "fair price" standard and ruling is about both the process and the price. And the standard is likely not what most people would assume it to be, particularly as stated by the OP, resting on matters such as "was and is the transaction synergistic to Tesla?" It's also notable that the court found several process flaws created by Musk but ultimately determined the Tesla board was independent enough that it was likely fair.

Was it actually fair as evaluated by any outsider on first principles? Probably not. Was it criminally unfair? No.

Re: xAI has acquired X, xAI now valued at $80B

#422

Post by solid_fuel »

telotortium wrote: post #382
sorcerer-mar wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the rate he's going, SpaceX is probably on its way to being nationalized within the next few elections. And that would make sense totally aside from punitive response: it is pretty dangerous to have such vital defense infrastructure controlled by such a mercurial personality.

According to existing Supreme Court precedent[1], nationalization of companies requires approval by Congress, not just the President, so that would make it more difficult. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Youngstown_Sheet_%26_Tube_Co._...

According to existing Supreme Court precedent, the president isn't able to impound funds which had been allotted by Congress (line item veto) [1], or fire the head of an independent agency for reasons other than allowed by Congress [2], it doesn't really seem like precedent has much weight amongst those in power today.

[1] https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/524/417/

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humphrey%27s_Executor_v._Unite...

Re: xAI has acquired X, xAI now valued at $80B

#424

Post by solid_fuel »

fallingknife wrote: post #255
sorcerer-mar wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the rate he's going, SpaceX is probably on its way to being nationalized within the next few elections. And that would make sense totally aside from punitive response: it is pretty dangerous to have such vital defense infrastructure controlled by such a mercurial personality.

Yes let's just have a fascist government that can seize private property because they declare it "dangerous." I see no way that could go bad.

I would be much more sympathetic to this argument if we hadn't seen Musk and the other oligarchs get away with anything and everything over the past two decades. Especially now that Musk holds a position of very considerable power in the administration, and without the approval of congress.

It seems to me that Musk may very well spend the next 4 years cutting everything he can from NASA, NOAA, the Post Office, and other federal agencies. Those capabilities will still be needed, and it is clear from the stated goals of those steering this administration [1] that they intend to steer as much as possible into private enterprises. Many of those enterprises are owned by Musk himself.

I don't know about you, but I see a major conflict of interest with one person both guiding the privatization process and profiting from it. If we do see a case where he steers federal funds from government agencies into a private company - at the cost of the ability of our government to execute critical functions without enriching Musk himself - then I have absolutely no issue with reclaiming those capabilities.

[1] https://qz.com/donald-trump-privatize-us-government-project-...

Re: xAI has acquired X, xAI now valued at $80B

#425

Post by gwern »

bboygravity wrote: post #142
mdorazio wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And how much of that is solar instead of Powerwall and Megapack? They don’t break it out in filings unless I missed it.

Exactly. So then why draw conclusions about how SolarCity was a bad deal for shareholders (see parent comments)? There's no substantiation of that either way.

> Exactly. So then why draw conclusions about how SolarCity was a bad deal for shareholders (see parent comments)?

You can absolutely draw adverse inferences from Tesla's refusal to report certain straightforward, useful numbers. For example, their refusal to publish any real safety statistics, to the point where Elon Musk himself has to invoke rubbish numbers like the 'community tracker'.

If, after all the lawsuits and accusations of failure, and the reporting about the near-zero deliveries and idled factories, the Tesla Energy division is giving you no numbers on the solar roof, and is lumping them together with a totally different product like batteries, there is one thing and only one thing that that means: the numbers are awful.

Re: xAI has acquired X, xAI now valued at $80B

#426

Post by silisili »

fzeroracer wrote: post #90
latency-guy2 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see any connection to what you're talking about to this. You have to explain.

Elon Musk is, essentially, bailing out himself using investor money from another company he runs by assigning a very highball evaluation to the company he's been destroying. I don't know how you can get closer to the robber baron ideal than being able to distort the market like that.

In fairness, a recent report put X's value at 44b, though I don't have access to FT to read the source material to know why.

https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/elon-musk-s-...

Re: xAI has acquired X, xAI now valued at $80B

#427

Post by ok_computer »

joquarky wrote: post #381
stefan_ wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because Tesla abandoned the SolarCity model? Like, SolarCity was a bunch of sales people going door-to-door to sell questionable leases on solar systems and hawking off the junk bonds resulting.

> questionable leases I have a SolarCity install that came with the house. The Power Purchase Agreement lease seemed shady at first, but ultimately I believe it's working out better for my family than for Tesla. I'm paying just under 11 cents per kWh and it can only go up a maximum of 3% per year for the next ~15 years.

I’m curious what the cumulative operating cost / financial repayment plan is relative to the capital installation cost. Funny enough if it is advantageous to you vs solar city that is one more argument in favor of them running a poor business model.

Re: xAI has acquired X, xAI now valued at $80B

#429

Post by permo-w »

ddtaylor wrote: post #397
permo-w wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

right but you don't have $1T to do that, whereas clearly he has however much money he's paid for it. it's a weird thing to do, but if he has the money to do it then meh?

In similar news: my left hand acquired my right hand today in an all stock deal valuing the combined hands at $250,000. Praising the announcement my arms noted on the deal: “With these two hands now together, there’s nothing our combined fist of might can’t do.” Competitors, my left and right feet, declined to comment on the merger but are said to be in their own separate talks about a deal.

changes nothing

Re: xAI has acquired X, xAI now valued at $80B

#430

Post by gwern »

uxcolumbo wrote: post #323
ein0p wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See the leaderboard tab here: https://lmarena.ai . Or just try it. It's excellent. Usage is free of charge so far. Subjectively, on my prompts, it seems substantially stronger than GPT 4o and 4.5. I also like its more "informal" tone, and its willingness to discuss the more controversial topics.

I think it’s important to not support products by people who want to destroy democracy and who openly sieg heiling or claiming Hitler wasn’t responsible for the Holocaust.

On the bright side, Google's new Gemini-2.5-pro comes with no Holocaust-denying issues, and is definitely a lot better than Grok, and is also free and fast.

(I've been using it the past 2 days and am pretty impressed - the first high-end Google model I'd willingly use instead of GPT-4.5 or Claude-3.7.)

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