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Turkish university annuls Erdogan rival's degree, preventing run for president

reuters.com

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Re: Turkish university annuls Erdogan rival's degree, preventing run for president

#421

Post by Lanolderen »

dylan604 wrote: post #420
Lanolderen wrote: post #417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The dream is probably dynamic voting through some login system where it's not done every X years but whenever you decide to change your vote maybe using ATMs as physical voting terminals for accessibility. Then voters can change their mind at any time and cause a change in leadership should the vote not be corrected over Y time. Then on top of that you can add multiple parties, individual person voting, etc. It proba…

Good gawd that's a nightmare system. Election by mood based polling. So if a person's poll numbers drop below some threshold, they are automatically recalled? Do you then set a minimum amount of time to keep the polling below that threshold. 0s? 24hrs? 1 week? You've now also limited the number of eligible voters to those with cards that work in ATMs, so people with some form of wealth which is probably in line with…

The ATM bit is just because we already have a system of safe terminals all over every country that are used to deal with personal data on the daily. It doesn't have to use a bank card per se. The idea is just to provide options outside of PC/phone login though even grandma has an Android nowadays.

The solution to the mood based polling is the "should the vote not be corrected over Y time". Y can be determined depending on what gov can handle but is it really mood voting if you get voted in, a year later you've not been in the lead position for over Y time (say 3 months) and you get replaced by the new favorite?

Re: Turkish university annuls Erdogan rival's degree, preventing run for president

#422

Post by setopt »

upofadown wrote: post #390
setopt wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What possible difference would such a renovation make to anyone outside the university? In some places, potential employers call the university to verify that you have the degree you claimed to prevent fraud. If so, the university can simply tell them the degree had been revoked thus blocking you from a job offer if it requires it.

Sure but wouldn't the institution have to justify the revocation? If it was, say, due to supporting the wrong faction in the Middle East the employer might not support the revocation. Without justification, couldn't the degree holder sue the institution for some sort of defamation?

> Sure but wouldn't the institution have to justify the revocation?

The people answering that phone or email are low-level admin staff far removed from those who decided to revoke the degree – I don’t know whether they have access to the reasoning or justification behind the revocation.

> Without justification, couldn't the degree holder sue the institution for some sort of defamation?

I honestly hope so – I’m quite against being able to revoke a degree due to other reasons than plain fraud (like plagiarism or fabrication). But I don’t know the laws well enough to answer.

Re: Turkish university annuls Erdogan rival's degree, preventing run for president

#423

Post by matthewdgreen »

bawolff wrote: post #418
matthewdgreen wrote: post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you’re operating an honest judicial board and you’re receiving high profile threats from the US government backed by huge funding cuts to the University, you have a choice. (1) Comply or simply appear to comply, by rendering a favorable ruling immediately, (2) Establish that your ruling is not the result of government pressure. You’d do the latter by (for example) showing your work and proving that the results wer…

Did the trump admin reverse course? There is no point in giving into threats if the other party is still going to follow through regardless. I think the best argument against this being due to political pressure from trump is it doesn't seem effective in getting rid of that pressure. If trump is the thing they care about here, why would they bother if trump is going to do trump things regardless.

I don't know what "reverse course" means here. This is extortion, not a simple transaction like purchasing a sandwich in a deli.

The Trump administration is withholding funding and simultaneously making a series of explicit (and completely inappropriate) demands that it wishes Columbia to comply with. I assume what we're watching is a kind of "negotiation" period in which Columbia either does or does not do various things, and then over time the Trump administration decides whether to relent or punish them further. There is no real pressure on the administration to just stop.

One of the explicit demands the administration made was for Columbia to disband the University Judicial Board (the exact group that handed down these decisions) presumably because they felt that it would not sufficiently punish the protesters. Coincidentally, around the same time this happened, the board "independently" decided to punish the protesters quite severely.

Re: Turkish university annuls Erdogan rival's degree, preventing run for president

#424

Post by archagon »

cko wrote: post #221
labster wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, damn, that was my strategy to deal with Trump, waiting on the economy. I guess it’s all joever for American democracy. 250 years was a pretty good run all things considered.

We had Japanese internment camps, Jim Crowe laws and McCarthyism and survived. Let's not write off American democracy just yet.

I would argue that every prior president at least respected the Constitution, democratic norms, and the peaceful transfer of power. If the ruling party cares more about their goals than democracy, what hope do we have?

Re: Turkish university annuls Erdogan rival's degree, preventing run for president

#426

Post by Lanolderen »

hulitu wrote: post #419
Lanolderen wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Essentially, young people want change, old people want stability. The right in the US has been advertising in the direction of change so it's liked for it. Especially by young people doomscrolling about "property prices now vs before" and cartelgram/liveleakesque videos. Once you get older you get a stable job, family, etc so you're less nervous about life and have better things to do than to get your adrenaline up w…

> Essentially, young people want change, old people want stability Old people have learned that change always means worse. Corruption is so big that it isn't really matter who is in power, the system functions as intended. (All over the world)

Not necessarily worse IMO but that it's a painful process for mediocre improvements.

Re: Turkish university annuls Erdogan rival's degree, preventing run for president

#427

Post by archagon »

stickfigure wrote: post #207
dragonwriter wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He can't run within the Constitution if it isn't changed. OTOH, his concern about whether his actions are Constitutional and the ability and willingness of any other institution to impose meaningful consequences on his unconstitutional acts don't support the conclusion that his future actions will be limited to what the Constitution allows.

A constitutional amendment requires ratification by 3/4 of the states. Even getting one proposed requires 2/3 of both houses of congress. This is not going to happen. Simply ignoring the constitution and cancelling the vote? There's no way he will be able to shift the Overton window that far in ~3 years.

https://www.thirdtermproject.com/third-term has some ideas:

> Constitutional Amendment: The U.S. Constitution can be amended by an act of Congress. Republicans must publicly get behind the third-term project.

> Running as Vice President: President Trump can run as Vice President with a space filler as President in 2028. Perhaps Donald Trump Jr. could run on a Trump/Trump ticket before gracefully resigning on Jan. 21, 2028 after securing victory. This plan while unorthodox would show that MAGA cannot be stopped by any procedural rule.

> Supreme Court Ruling: The 22nd Amendment bans anyone from serving two terms in office, but it is not completely clear if that refers to two presidential terms under any circumstances or two consecutive presidential terms. There are legal challenges in the works to clear up the ambiguity regarding the 22nd Amendment. The conservative rule-of-law justices on the Supreme Court would be able to settle this once and for all, making it clear that the 22nd Amendment would allow Trump a third term as it would only be his second consecutive term.

Re: Turkish university annuls Erdogan rival's degree, preventing run for president

#428

Post by chrisco255 »

kibwen wrote: post #396
chrisco255 wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

J6 wasn't the first protest Washington D.C. has ever seen, but it was somehow the first they allowed to get out of hand.

Don't worry, Trump pardoned all his cronies, so it won't be the last.

Biden pardoned his whole family, from what do you think they were gullilty of?

Re: Turkish university annuls Erdogan rival's degree, preventing run for president

#429

Post by chrisco255 »

CalChris wrote: post #191
chrisco255 wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

J6 wasn't the first protest Washington D.C. has ever seen, but it was somehow the first they allowed to get out of hand.

Yes, Trump refusing to send in the DC Guard could be considered allowing it to get out of hand.

The mayor of DC is in charge of DC's guard, and Trump did request their presence, but the mayor failed to abide the request.

Re: Turkish university annuls Erdogan rival's degree, preventing run for president

#430

Post by chrisco255 »

tokioyoyo wrote: post #222
chrisco255 wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Democracy doesn't work when ordinary people are not educated When USA was formed and for the first couple hundred years of its existence, most people in it didn't have a high school or college degree. In fact many of the founders of the United States had no degree, including Benjamin Franklin, who was a newspaper editor, scientist, statesman and inventor. Literacy can be learned by the 5th grade by most people. It…

I don't think many people look up to USA and think "oh yeah, that's a great system, we should have it". Many systems cannot be replicated for cultural, historical and other reasons. Frankly, requiring basic qualifications for a very complex job is actually a solid thing. Especially when any trade school/university degree would work. I don't agree with revoking of the degrees part, but that's just government trying to…

I think many people actually do look up to the USA given the hundreds of millions who want to migrate here. I will give you that culture matters when it comes to political systems.

However, there are no arbitrary qualifications or certifications worth imposing on a country's leadership. They are blatantly gameable and trivially corruptible, as seen in the example.

Leadership qualities are apparent in their own right and can be earned from a diverse path of life achievements. Those might include founding a successful business, acting as a general, major, or captain in the military, inventing new products or technologies, running a charity, heading a police or fire department, running a church, working up the corporate ladder from entry level, etc etc. There are thousands of career paths that don't require degrees and there are phenomenal leaders within those domains. It's incredibly ignorant to deny those unique and valuable people from being eligible for arbitrary reasons.

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