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The Demoralization is just Beginning

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Re: The Demoralization is just Beginning

#421
post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or even better, The Economist's "Big Mac Index": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Mac_Index https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/big-mac-i...

The big mac index is quite literally PPP dumbed down to a single product that the general public can understand.

[deleted]

Re: The Demoralization is just Beginning

#422
post #413
post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Japan is very good at this. They’re essentially like “You got someone willing to pay you? Cool, come on in.” Then after 5 years you can (if you want) naturalize, and after 10 you can get permanent residency. No random nation based limits like the US somehow has.

should we be looking to Japan for advice on how to grow an economy?

Growing the economy is no longer an option for the US, we need to worry about managing our inevitable decline and likely collapse.

Re: The Demoralization is just Beginning

#423

There's an implicit assumption in the article and the comments here that "brain drain the world" is a free lunch. But does anyone think through to the end-game of that? That when you drain the most smart/productive people away from every other country, all those countries become less wealthy and more dysfunctional, leading to societal decline, poverty, resentment, radicalisation, war, etc? Aside from anything else, t…

Your claim that good economicts "know there is no free lunch" is completely false, unsubstantiated and actively misleading.

Many impressive economists believe there are policies that could massively improve the worlds economy, but that implementating these policies is a coordination problem / hard to overcome lobbying / politically intractable, etc...

Radical Markets is great book on exactly this topic.

Re: The Demoralization is just Beginning

#424

There's an implicit assumption in the article and the comments here that "brain drain the world" is a free lunch. But does anyone think through to the end-game of that? That when you drain the most smart/productive people away from every other country, all those countries become less wealthy and more dysfunctional, leading to societal decline, poverty, resentment, radicalisation, war, etc? Aside from anything else, t…

I wouldn’t worry about this too much. Brain drain, despite the name, is not really a zero-sum game. The people who move rarely lose all contact with the host country. They gain invaluable experience, know-how, and contacts that some of them eventually bring back to the host country. I know of more than one example where someone has been “brain-drained” to the states, who has subsequently moved back to start a success…

Yes of course but when articles like this (and the general policy/assumption in the US) just blankly asserts that we can just “brain-drain” our way back to prosperity and dominance, there isn’t much nuanced consideration of the limits, caveats and tradeoffs inherent to that approach, which need much more than an HN comment or brief blog post to fully explore.

Re: The Demoralization is just Beginning

#425
post #396

There's an implicit assumption in the article and the comments here that "brain drain the world" is a free lunch. But does anyone think through to the end-game of that? That when you drain the most smart/productive people away from every other country, all those countries become less wealthy and more dysfunctional, leading to societal decline, poverty, resentment, radicalisation, war, etc? Aside from anything else, t…

> We need to put as much effort into helping every other country develop and thrive - and by doing that we'll create many more customers for the products/services produced in our own countries, and everyone can end up richer. this was the logic in letting eg China into the WTO and allowing them to become such a big trading partner. turns out, this doesn't necessarily result in liberalization (see Germany's experience…

I do not disagree with your point, except, given the current state of US, it is hard to describe it as not repressive. I understand it's a spectrum. I checked on Wikipedia - abortion is legal in China. That's one right that many US women don't have. Which does not mean that China is a free country, but just to gain some perspective. The notion of some place being a dictatorship was many times weaponized to launch invasions and economic sanctions that left that place broken and impoverished.

Re: The Demoralization is just Beginning

#428
post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More to the point, when you write an article like this foretelling the doom of the american economy, why would you think you are able to brain drain any country? What stops the countries you are trying to drain from offering better incentives to stay?

At this point in time, US is the global leader in personal freedoms, culture and financial opportunities. These are the things people are looking to immigrate towards. Personal freedoms can't be manufactured. They are a product of the underlying system governing a country. The US has very strong institutions and legal framework in the form of the constitution (again, at this point in time; I expect the current admin…

"At this point in time, US is the global leader in personal freedoms, culture and financial opportunities."

This needs to be past-tensed. In fact, currently, the US is the global leader in regressing with regards to these and other commendable qualities.

Re: The Demoralization is just Beginning

#429
post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More to the point, when you write an article like this foretelling the doom of the american economy, why would you think you are able to brain drain any country? What stops the countries you are trying to drain from offering better incentives to stay?

At this point in time, US is the global leader in personal freedoms, culture and financial opportunities. These are the things people are looking to immigrate towards. Personal freedoms can't be manufactured. They are a product of the underlying system governing a country. The US has very strong institutions and legal framework in the form of the constitution (again, at this point in time; I expect the current admin…

Wether the US is a beacon of freedom is too much of a landmine, I'll just point out that there's about a few dozen countrjes around the world where you'll enjoy enough personal freedom.

> Culture is something that's very hard to replicate.

You are highlighting the global influence of the US. By definition, you'll get access to that global shine almost wherever you live. Nobody will immigrate to the US to watch Disney movies or eat McDonalds. On the other hand, you might need to be in Korea to get most of the Korean culture. You'd need to assert that the US local and exclusive culture is more attractive than other countries own culture, and that sounds like a hard debate.

To your point, it's easier to move to the US if you already know the culture a bit, but that still presumes wanting to move there.

Re: The Demoralization is just Beginning

#430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>And a dictatorship. Democracy does not fit very well with long term plans Say again? If we're talking strictly about the United States as per the article that inspired this post, the U.S. is a case study of a prosperous, remarkably stable democracy steadily increasing its prosperity, wealth, influence and power while also for the vast majority of its history investing for the long term and in vital infrastructure. T…

In the US of 50 years ago, democracy was protected by codes of conduct, honor, and most importantly, strong content moderation in the form of monopolistic legacy media. All of this went out the door with the rise of social networks and the demise of legacy media. I don't see how democracy has the tools to survive populists with direct connection to the voting public. Even if elections happen in 2028, there's a good c…

this is EXACTLY it. the rise of social media and demise of legacy media weaponized politicians to create flamewars over issues which are great for winning elections but have no real meaning for our day-to-day lives. wokeness, transgender athletes, how many genders we have on the web forms to choose from, how many "immigrants" are we going to deport... are entirely meaningless for 99.98% of the population. instead of talking about how to move the country forward the public discourse is now filled with meaningless "social wars." I do not see a way out of this and I am about as optimistic of a person as you'll find... I mentioned to my colleague few weeks back when we had to change the gender dropdown from tens of options to just two to just stash the changes till 2028 when we'll get 983 options for that same dropdown :)
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