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Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

bbc.com

421–430 of 1001 posts

Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#421

"This is gonna be great television I will say that." - Donald Trump's last words as the confrontation ended. Just insanity.

It's like the inverse of Gil Scott Heron's "The revolution will not be televised"

"The Nuclear Holocaust Will Be Televised"

There's even a trailer from the Reagan era: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBtu0gr6JqM

But it seems the format is going to be in the style of reality TV shows from 10-20 years ago.

Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#422

The American government has been compromised by Russia. It no longer represents American interests, but Russian interests. Whether the senior powers in America are compromised, complicit, or opportunist, it doesn't matter. America is being damaged. Russian interests are being prioritized over American interests. Our military is too powerful for direct conflict, so alternative conflict against our political structure…

Honestly I think this is a bad take and I'm not exactly what one would call a "supporter" of the current administration.

Americans get too wrapped up in the propaganda around Ukraine to even start to understand it. If your understanding of what's going on starts in 2022 and not, at least, back to 2014, then you're not really understanding what's going on.

The conflict in Ukraine has, since the 2010s, has been about fossil fuels and other mineral rights. Around that time oil and natural gas sources were found in all the regions currently being fought over.

Ukraine, sadly, will always just be a pawn for the other major players. What we're seeing here is not "Russian interests being prioritized over American interests". This war has never been about what's good for the American people nor the Ukrainian people, but the companies that stand to benefit from extraction rights (Democrats as well as Republicans get their directions from billionaires, despite the song and dance to convince you otherwise).

The prior administration had fairly strong support from and for European parties that wanted to partake of these resources. The change is really away from support for Europe in favor of two things: better relations with Russia, and more importantly, ending this thing. The "ending this thing" is not because of desires for peace, but because as long as there are bombs being dropped in this region nobody can extract anything from anywhere.

People upset about this situation are living in a world that doesn't exist anymore. We're in the end game of industrial civilization and the rules have changed. The future is no longer infinitely bright and very soon the global economy will start to contract. Additionally we'll be seeing climate catastrophe ramp up dramatically in coming years. As the Arctic melts, Canada and Russia will effectively share a border (making Trump's other "crazy" idea, less "crazy"). Europe, once our obvious ally, will have increasingly less to offer the US in the coming decades.

Europe, largely lacking in fossil resources, is going to increasingly find itself a minor player in global politics. The realpolitik of today is major oil producing nations realizing that conflict with each other will, at this phase of the game, do more harm then forming alliances.

Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#423

The American government has been compromised by Russia. It no longer represents American interests, but Russian interests. Whether the senior powers in America are compromised, complicit, or opportunist, it doesn't matter. America is being damaged. Russian interests are being prioritized over American interests. Our military is too powerful for direct conflict, so alternative conflict against our political structure…

At least we know there's no deep state.

Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#424

The American government has been compromised by Russia. It no longer represents American interests, but Russian interests. Whether the senior powers in America are compromised, complicit, or opportunist, it doesn't matter. America is being damaged. Russian interests are being prioritized over American interests. Our military is too powerful for direct conflict, so alternative conflict against our political structure…

> The American government has been compromised by Russia. It no longer represents American interests, but Russian interests.

What kind of conspiracy theory is this? It makes no sense, at least have believable ones if you’re going to promote them.

Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#425

George Washington's farewell address (1796) - on Europe: The great rule of conduct for us in regard to foreign nations is in extending our commercial relations, to have with them as little political connection as possible. So far as we have already formed engagements, let them be fulfilled with perfect good faith. Here let us stop. Europe has a set of primary interests which to us have none; or a very remote relation…

Quoting founding fathers on contemporary issues always makes me chuckle.

> If healthcare was a human right, then why didn't 18th century slave-owners put it in the Constitution?

Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#427

Thank god that finally we're going to stop sending hundreds of thousands of men into a meat grinder for no purpose. Ofc, Trump is doing this in great part because he personally hates Zelensky and Biden. He's doing what he did to Obama and just unwinding everything his predecessor did. He also correctly ascertains that this is a huge waste of money that is counterproductive. All the liberal cold warriors that wanted t…

Russia will just attack again. Ukrainans and their own poor and non-ethnic-Russian population are just subhumans to them and they literally don't care about any deaths.

Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#428
This was a setup. It wasn't meant to be a meeting where policy is negotiated, it was an attempt bully Zelensky into agreeing to a bunch of pro-Russian falsehoods in hopes that he'd get something from the US. Good on him for realizing that Ukraine will get nothing from our compromised government, pushing back against false narratives and not hurting his cause trying to pursue a "compromise" just like the one that Ukraine got in 2015 that Russia reneg'd on almost immediately.

Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#429
post #228

Well, here come the downvotes, but for anybody who thinks that it is completely believable that Trump is a Russian stooge or is “on Russias side” let me offer this up: - We want peace. Full stop. No more dead men, women, and children. THAT IS THE GOAL. CONTEXT: - Trump armed Ukraine to the teeth in first term, providing lethal aid which previous presidents did not do. He wanted to deter Putin while not also escalatin…

This is the correct answer. Everyone here saying "We need to stand up to Putin..." won't be fighting on the frontlines and at worst, we can be entering WW3 if the US, Russia, and the EU keep escalating the conflict.
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