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Supreme Court upholds TikTok ban, but Trump might offer lifeline

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Re: Supreme Court upholds TikTok ban, but Trump might offer lifeline

#421

Post by wry_discontent »

bastardoperator wrote: post #409
legitster wrote: post #119

TikTok is perhaps the most impressively addictive social media app ever created. The algorithm used in the US was apparently banned in China for being too addictive. There's a certain historic symmetry with how opium was traditionally used in China, then Britain introduced stronger, more disruptive versions, forcing a stronger social reaction. Geopolitics aside, I think everyone is kind of aware that social media is…

The government doesn't care about addictive anything, this is about control and access. If they cared about life or citizens in general they would fix healthcare and maybe introduce any kind of gun control. This is the same government that was slanging cocaine in the 1980's...

Multiple reps publicly said TikTok needed to be banned because they couldn't control the narrative around Gaza as easily. TikTok is the only platform I regularly see content about Gaza fed from the algorithm.

Re: Supreme Court upholds TikTok ban, but Trump might offer lifeline

#422

Post by wat10000 »

adriand wrote: post #322

What I love is that apparently tons of Americans are signing up for a different Chinese social video app whose name is being translated as “Red Note”. I would love if the end result of this was another several years of congressional drama about a different Chinese app.

It’s even better than that. “Red Note” is the softened version. A more direct translation is “Little Red Book.”

Re: Supreme Court upholds TikTok ban, but Trump might offer lifeline

#423

Post by zacharyz »

throwaway199956 wrote: post #347
mrcwinn wrote: post #15

Regardless of one’s view on the outcome, this case is a reminder that textualism as a legal philosophy stands on shaky ground. This case is decided not on some strict analysis of the words written by a legislator, but on the court’s subjective view that there is a compelling national interest (which in turn seems based on speculation about the future, rather than a factual analysis of events). Textualism might give t…

But why didn't Supreme Court find the first ammendment arguments compelling? As per first ammendment it is legal and protected to print/distribute/disseminate even enemy propaganda in the USA. Even at the height of cold war for example Soviet Publication s were legal to publish, print and distribute in the USA. What changed now? Even a judge, Sotomayer said during this case that yes, the Government can say to someone…

The justices seem to have argued that eliminating a platform for speech does not inhibit your ability to voice that speech on another platform, so is not a violation of the first amendment. I think this is an important outcome and really goes against what many so called "free speech absolutists" would argue.

Re: Supreme Court upholds TikTok ban, but Trump might offer lifeline

#424

Post by commandlinefan »

As a free speech absolutist, I hope that what comes out of this is a completely anonymized, uncensorable alternative. We've gotten the arbitrary censorship walled garden social media sites mostly because until now there hasn't been any particular reason for most users to step outside of them.

Re: Supreme Court upholds TikTok ban, but Trump might offer lifeline

#426

Post by srameshc »

croes wrote: post #362
legitster wrote: post #119

TikTok is perhaps the most impressively addictive social media app ever created. The algorithm used in the US was apparently banned in China for being too addictive. There's a certain historic symmetry with how opium was traditionally used in China, then Britain introduced stronger, more disruptive versions, forcing a stronger social reaction. Geopolitics aside, I think everyone is kind of aware that social media is…

It’s not about the algorithm but about the owner of the platform. The same algorithm in US possession isn’t a problem.

Well said. Only if we start looking at both of these issues separately, owner and algorith and deal with each one appropriately.

Re: Supreme Court upholds TikTok ban, but Trump might offer lifeline

#427

Post by gmd63 »

iLoveOncall wrote: post #384
throwaway199956 wrote: post #342

But why didn't Supreme Court find the first ammendment arguments compelling? As per first ammendment it is legal and protected to print/distribute/disseminate even enemy propaganda in the USA. Even at the height of cold war for example Soviet Publications were legal to publish, print and distribute in the USA. What changed now? Even a judge, Sotomayer said during this case that yes, the Government can say to someone…

TikTok doesn't do speech. Users on TikTok do speech. Banning TikTok doesn't prevent any users from printing / distributing / disseminating their speech. The first amendment doesn't have any provision regarding the potential reach or enablement of distribution of the speech of the people.

Agreed. TikTok allows people to speak into the app, and to receive speech, but the act of organizing and strategically disseminating the speech is not speech -- it's societal scale hormone regulation and should be controlled for the health of the national body. It's wild that so many people are up in arms about TikTok when it is a Chinese app that is banned in China, where apps are heavily restricted.

For anyone who does consider these algorithms speech, I challenge you to share a single person at any social media company who has taken direct responsibility over a single content feed of an individual user. How can speech exist if nobody is willing to take ownership of it?

Re: Supreme Court upholds TikTok ban, but Trump might offer lifeline

#428

Post by cyclecount »

maeil wrote: post #417

Many people here upset about this. Here's what recently happened in Romania, all through TikTok. Turns out China (or here, Russia) infiltrated the country, waged an enormous disinformation campaign and succeeded by getting their chosen candidate elected. Without TikTok, this would not have happened. I have talked about this with Romanians who concur. In the real world, there are two responses to this. 1. "Tough luck,…

This is laughable, even with your depiction of the events. The candidate in question (Georgescu) had a very popular platform, and was supported by a large bases or Romanians on the left and right.

He was, however, opposed to further expansion of NATO.

If these ideas are too scary to let general public even consider, then democracies have to step in and censor the media. And that begins by banning TikTok, the largest platform where a narrative like this can bypass the existing power structures.

Re: Supreme Court upholds TikTok ban, but Trump might offer lifeline

#429

Post by stefan_ »

Workaccount2 wrote: post #23

I believe Biden says his admin won't enforce the ban, as they only have 1 day left in office after it goes into effect. Trump has signaled he doesn't support the ban, and wants tiktok under american ownership. The legislation allows the president to put a 90 day hold on the ban too. So my guess is that this isn't over yet.

There seems to be a lot of misinformation around this, no surprise given the TikTok user base..

The law targets other companies that would be breaking the law if they continue providing services for a China-owned TikTok past the ban date. The statute of limitations is five years, past a Trump presidency. No, an executive order can not cancel a law. Google, Apple & co would be exposing themselves to a lot of uncertainty and risk, and for what?

Re: Supreme Court upholds TikTok ban, but Trump might offer lifeline

#430

Post by lvl155 »

next_xibalba wrote: post #404
legitster wrote: post #119

TikTok is perhaps the most impressively addictive social media app ever created. The algorithm used in the US was apparently banned in China for being too addictive. There's a certain historic symmetry with how opium was traditionally used in China, then Britain introduced stronger, more disruptive versions, forcing a stronger social reaction. Geopolitics aside, I think everyone is kind of aware that social media is…

From a geopolitical perspective, this issue about 3 items: 1) Influence- TikTok gives the CCP significant direct influence over the views of Americans. 2) Data- TikTok collects massive amounts of data on 100s of millions of Americans. Opens many avenues for spying, extortion of influence, etc. 3) Reciprocity- Foreign tech companies are essentially banned from operating in China. Much like with other industries, China…

Nail in the head with reciprocity. I think the US honored its end of the bargain over the past four plus decades since China started manufacturing goods for US companies. China clearly benefited since they are now the second largest economy. Along the way China grew ambitious which is fine but they made an idiotic policy error in timing. They should’ve waited a couple more decades to show teeth.
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