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Australia: Kids under 16 to be banned from social media after Senate passes laws

abc.net.au

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Re: Australia: Kids under 16 to be banned from social media after Senate passes laws

#421

Post by lukan »

TomK32 wrote: post #418
probably_wrong wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would argue that "social media" requires the social aspect, namely, contacts and direct messaging.

We socialize here, just last month I read someone's comment about life in the Canadian country-side and realized he's the brother of a Youtuber I'm watching for years. The same happens on any other social platform be it in the internet or real life.

Yes and I would not demonize it.

The problem I see, are networks that are financed mainly by ads - so they have the incentive to keep engagement artifically high and spy as much as possible.

But "banning social media" does not ask that question.

Re: Australia: Kids under 16 to be banned from social media after Senate passes laws

#424

Post by Cthulhu_ »

nomilk wrote: post #175

Every single Australian 's ID will have to be verified (in order to confirm their age). Depending on the degree of cooperation (/coercion) the Australian government has with social media companies, the Aus Govt will be able to access citizen social media data with relative ease. So no more pseudo anonymous accounts (or, at least, they'll be made more difficult, especially for non-technical folk). Reminds of the 'chil…

I don't think you need to express any hunches when some sleuthing will reveal the interest/lobby groups, organizations, and politicians and their connections etc that pushed or advocated for this legislation.

That said, your legacy media hunch also doesn't make any sense because this writing on the wall and social media being a threat has been a thing for over twenty years now; they have fully embraced and integrated social media, and have filed lawsuits to get money from them: [0] says Rupert Murdoch's News Corp will get paid by Facebook for News Corp content, specifically in australia but this goes / went on everywhere.

[0] https://www.theguardian.com/media/2021/mar/16/rupert-murdoch...

Re: Australia: Kids under 16 to be banned from social media after Senate passes laws

#425

Post by illiac786 »

bgun wrote: post #371
cs02rm0 wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many under 16s read newspapers or watch news anyway? That's exactly why there's a suggestion legacy media are driving this.

It’s not like 14 year olds were reading newspapers before, and this is not a legacy media cartel trying get more teenagers into watching the news. Not everything has to be a conspiracy.

No, the argument is, the under 16 of today will be hooked on social media and will never read “classic” medias when they are older.

Re: Australia: Kids under 16 to be banned from social media after Senate passes laws

#426

Post by Cthulhu_ »

arthurbrown wrote: post #392
nomilk wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> stop their kids accessing hardcore porn, violence and other mind bending content. Such sites are not among the social media sites required to verify Australian's ID/ages, which hints that protecting kids is merely a pretence.

They are planning to enforce access to these sites with the same mechanism. https://www.esafety.gov.au/about-us/consultation-cooperation...

But it's the internet; for every one site that implements this, there will be a thousand that don't, and for every one that the government takes down, another thousand will pop up. And that's just the actual porn sites, there's millions of other ways to get access, be it websites, privacy-conscious apps, file sharing, etc. If people want porn they'll find it.

Of course, it being more difficult, technically involved, or otherwise shady will probably reinforce a message that it's not normal, because another issue is the normalization of porn to the point where people watch it in public. I'm also very aware I am just echoing the same thing an older generation has said about things like raunchy video clips on MTV, magazines like Playboy, movies with Marilyn Monroe, and painters painting a hint of ankle.

Re: Australia: Kids under 16 to be banned from social media after Senate passes laws

#427

Post by illiac786 »

Aurornis wrote: post #312
pimterry wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Every single Australian's ID will have to be verified (in order to confirm their age). > > Depending on the degree of cooperation (/coercion) the Australian government has with social media companies, the Aus Govt will be able to access citizen social media data with relative ease. So no more pseudo anonymous accounts (or, at least, they'll be made more difficult, especially for non-technical folk). This isn't a gi…

This comes up on every single HN thread about the topic, but I don’t understand how people aren’t seeing the obvious abuse angle: Create a market for anonymous age verification tokens. People pay $5 to someone to create an age authorization for them. 17 year old kid (who is old enough under this law) spends all day creating anonymous age auth tokens to sell to people who want them. Entire system subverted with profit…

Germany has a system in their ID cards that allows anonymous age verification. No one uses it but it’s a technical marvel in my opinion.

The site asks for specific read permissions and the user can decide if he wants to grant them.

One of these permissions is age verification.

You put the phone on the ID card and there is a cryptographic proof that the user connecting to the site is in possession of an ID of a person above 16 (which he of course could have stolen).

So it is technically totally feasible to have good data privacy AND age verification.

Re: Australia: Kids under 16 to be banned from social media after Senate passes laws

#428

Post by 71bw »

anneessens wrote: post #341
rpdillon wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have tried to find good scientific evidence that shows that social media is a net negative for kids and or adults. I have been unable to do so. Reports that I read on conventional media sites often summarize government reports, but they do so incorrectly. And when I go and read the government reports, they present a much more balanced picture than the summaries would suggest. In particular, for marginalized teens,…

> In particular, for marginalized teens, social media represents a unique avenue to connect with teens in similar situations, which provides a significant support network. Thank you for bringing this up. I was one of those 'marginalised' kids who didn't relate to my real life surroundings so much. The internet was like an escape for me, where I was able to meet many close friends with similar interests on social medi…

>On a site like HN, I would have expected there to be much more people who also had the same experience as younger me with the internet and social media.

The majority of people who actively engage in discussions here are from generations older than ours (I assume we are similar in age) and hence are mostly unable to relate to our experiences.

Re: Australia: Kids under 16 to be banned from social media after Senate passes laws

#429

Post by 71bw »

xyzzy123 wrote: post #210
Funes- wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Parents should be more responsible. That's it. This measure is, potentially, deeply ingraining the (terrible) idea that the State is responsible instead, so when all these young kids have children, they, just as their parents, will lack the ability to take responsibility and make their children more responsible by proxy, and so on, and so forth. It's a never ending cycle that is perpetuated by not tackling the proble…

The difficulty is co-ordination. My job as a "responsible parent" is much more difficult if I have to fight prevailing social norms and my kids perceive they are being excluded from conversations and arbitrarily cut off from their peers. The social media ban is similar to the logic behind gaming limits in China. The idea is that while the controls themselves are easily circumvented, it gives everyone an excuse to do…

>I am OK with this ban for the same reason I'm OK with tobacco sellers being not allowed to sell to under 18s.

And yet almost anywhere in Europe this ban is completely ineffective as the kids who start smoking get their hands on the cigarettes regardless. It only is a VERY minor inconvenience until they grow 18.

Re: Australia: Kids under 16 to be banned from social media after Senate passes laws

#430

Post by 71bw »

ocschwar wrote: post #415
casey2 wrote: post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you even mean by "work". You live in a fantasy land if you think the government will say we expect outcomes A, B and C from this law and will repeal or adjust it if all outcomes aren't met in 3 years. It's either a power grab or lobbying as others have suggested. SERIOUSLY! Is anyone claiming that childhood depression and suicide will go down to some range after this law is put in effect? Of course not. Will…

The key indicator is a simple question: how many of Australia's teenagers continue to use social networks now.

Nothing will change - other than perhaps the app they use.
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