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The EdTech Revolution Has Failed

afterbabel.com

421–430 of 528 posts

Re: The EdTech Revolution Has Failed

#421
post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the US electorate had better economics education, they would have thought both the [2024] candidates were economic idiots.

If the US electorate had better economics education, the 2024 candidates might have been forced to present sane and reasonable economic platforms, because doing so would have actual political value. Dare I say at least one of those candidates wouldn't even have made it to the primaries. Which I leave as an exercise for the reader. They aren't economic idiots, they just know most American voters mistrust any economic…

This is reductive. Even PhD economists are crap at predicting effects of certain policies (see the Federal Reserve - it has thousands of them!). The economy is very complex to model (and has reflexivity), and generally you will find credentialed experts on both sides of anything short of a trivial debate.

Tariffs have pros/cons, as does any other policy proposed by the two candidates. And the most tricky thing when computing the effects of these policies is: "what is the quantity we're trying to optimize for?" - where the "welfare of the people" is not really a measurable thing.

Re: The EdTech Revolution Has Failed

#422
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But leads to kids guessing. Or, almost as bad, kids learning to approximate the answer. I aced too many multiple-choice physics exams in my GCSEs because the multiple choice was A) 1,000,000 B) 1,000 C) 100 D) 10. Without knowing the formula I was able to eyeball which numbers looked obviously wrong and just select the closest.

That's closer to real life physics than knowing formulas is!

Perhaps but it’s set me up for awful work habits over the past 15 years!

Re: The EdTech Revolution Has Failed

#423
post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, it is less about "keeping top kids down" and more about "let's use our very scarce resources helping the bottom kids". Put that way it seems less malicious, and more like probably the right thing to do over all, while still being extremely frustrating if you are, or are the parent of, a 'top kid'. I know that in Seattle, I've been very frustrated with all the talk and promise of our school to provide enri…

and more like probably the right thing to do over all It’s only the right thing if you assume equity as a starting position though. We already know, rather robustly, that the weakest and most disruptive students can consume far more than their share of limited resources and produce correspondingly limited outcomes. Another theory goes that we should provide more resources to the best and brightest students so that th…

That approach eventually failed, because the great leaders and experts went on to improve the society for themselves, at the expense of everyone else. Focusing on those who would be successful anyway made sense when the middle class was still expanding. Then the expansion stopped, social mobility decreased, and the zero-sum aspects of the society became dominant.

Re: The EdTech Revolution Has Failed

#424
post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> An ill-educated populace is easier to manipulate, gravitate towards consumerism, and won't hold their leaders as accountable. This is a reactionary take. Math, science, and basic language skills do not lead to political upheaval, and are incredibly valuable skills to the capital class. Leadership would be more apt to propagandize social studies and suppress dissent. China easily comes to mind as a counter argument.…

If the US electorate had better economics education, they would have thought both the [2024] candidates were economic idiots.

Economists have a pretty poor track record of predictions themselves... so I wouldn't be too smug about this. The economy (the real one, not the one in textbooks) is very complex, and most "obvious" things that you think about the various proposed policies are probably wrong.

Re: The EdTech Revolution Has Failed

#425
COVID was to EdTech as The Fukushima Nuclear event was to Japanese Robotics -- the one big event where all hands were needed on deck and the decades of investment came up...lacking.

In the case of Fukushima - getting entry and information on the inside of the reactor core eventually required U.S. developed robots, built for much more challenging and pragmatic environments.

With EdTech, for decades we knew that it was a backup option to solid in-classroom, instructor led, education. AFAIK, measured outcomes on non-traditional learning have nearly always lagged the classroom. But more and more institutions were turning to it because, quite frankly, its cheaper -- with student flexibility as the trailing, but strongly upsold, benefit.

The 100%, digital, EdTech event that was COVID has forced a reckoning. We finally have, at massive scale, real data (and not small or unusual situations) that comprehensively shows the tech either isn't ready, or never will be.

I personally don't understand why this seems to be such a surprise. Ever since I went through school, there was an attempt to shove technogadgets into classrooms that offered very minimal educational value over a teacher using their judgment, training, and experience to work with a student to learn a topic.

There's a part in this article that I think is the key problem:

> What he found was equal parts surprising and predictable: nearly everything has a positive impact on student learning.

I remember a specific "training" I received years ago as an adult. The instructor put each student through a comprehensive skills assessment. Then the students spent 8 weeks in a room with the resources we should have used for learning -- books, video, software, and so on -- but without any instruction of any kind. At the end of the 8 weeks we were all assessed again and voila! nearly all students had shown progress. Great success! and the instructor was free to continue doing next to nothing and doomscrolling Facebook most of the day in his best job ever. Providing no education whatsoever, but just access to resources, had a demonstrated positive outcome.

A lot of EdTech falls into this same sort of bullshit pile. It doesn't really do anything in particular, but will sometimes show the promise of improvement. Fingers are pointed to improperly trained educators, or lack of time with the technogadget, or some other reason other than the tech when searching for what's holding the tech back. What the deployers of EdTech are really measuring is not educational outcomes, but improvements to the bottom-line. If they were really focused on education, then EdTech would only be used where it should a learning effect at least as great as classroom instruction. But we know it generally doesn't, and yet here it is in our classrooms.

Source: Developed adult learning curriculum in advanced technical areas and delivered material to over 2,000 students who were required to have had at least an undergraduate degree and significant other job-specific training as prerequisites. Was also a "cursed" gifted kid in K-12.

Re: The EdTech Revolution Has Failed

#426

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The promise of EdTech was that kids could learn where they are. A kid who's behind can actually continue to learn rather than being left behind. A kid who's ahead can be nurtured. ... > Now in order to keep schools paying for our services, every kid is banded into a range based on their grade. They are scored/graded based on their grade level rather than their growth. This is the behavior that I'm referring to. I'm…

If you exclude any other reason from the discussion then it's true but tautological. The questions I mentioned still tie into age and aren't just "in the curriculum ever yes or no" type of questions (for instance, at what age should sex education be given?).

[deleted]

Re: The EdTech Revolution Has Failed

#427
Step one should be having an edtech ecosystem that doesn't allow students to use the web. There are just too many distractions online. I think noone has really invested the kind of capital required to do a good job with this. Most of the software my kids have to use for school is pretty bad.

Re: The EdTech Revolution Has Failed

#428
post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Education only camouflages stupidity, it does not remove it." You are arguing that low intelligence is innate, unchangeable. Which sounds very much like saying stupidity is genetic.

Yes, it is innate, with a high degree of heritability. No one questions physical traits are innate, but some how when it comes to IQ it become highly contested... Why, do think otherwise?

Trying to quantify genetics and intelligence is fraught because of history and ethics. We cannot put one twin in a box of food and water and the other in schools of varying quality. We also cannot clone Einstein and put them in various schools then test them.

Everyone has to live and grow within unjust societies. Some groups will suffer from racism, others may benefit. So it's going to be hard to prove much of anything without a lot of twins and decades of natural experiments.

The eugenics movements and Nazi experiments have also made the whole subject taboo.

Finally IQ is quite arbitrary and the tests evolve over time too.

Re: The EdTech Revolution Has Failed

#429
post #10

I work in EdTech, I have for a very long time now, and the problem I have seen is no one in education is willing to ACTUALLY let kids learn at their own level. The promise of EdTech was that kids could learn where they are. A kid who's behind can actually continue to learn rather than being left behind. A kid who's ahead can be nurtured. We had this. It worked well, in my opinion at least, and the number of complaint…

The future promise of real education was crushed by the relentless political fiction that actually runs education.

So brutal. Thanks for doing what you can.

Re: The EdTech Revolution Has Failed

#430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it is innate, with a high degree of heritability. No one questions physical traits are innate, but some how when it comes to IQ it become highly contested... Why, do think otherwise?

Trying to quantify genetics and intelligence is fraught because of history and ethics. We cannot put one twin in a box of food and water and the other in schools of varying quality. We also cannot clone Einstein and put them in various schools then test them. Everyone has to live and grow within unjust societies. Some groups will suffer from racism, others may benefit. So it's going to be hard to prove much of anythi…

>The eugenics movements and Nazi experiments have also made the whole subject taboo.

I know this.

>Finally IQ is quite arbitrary and the tests evolve over time too.

The IQ test may be flawed, but is the concept flawed?

Can you see any downside in not acknowledging differing intelligence among individuals?

(we know the downside of acknowledging it - right from the Natzis, to individuals who may not try hard enough to achieve something)

And oh well - there are both twin studying and studies on kid adopted by their non-biological parent. Given the taboo, it may not be easy to find them.

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