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Steam games will need to disclose kernel-level anti-cheat on store pages

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Re: Steam games will need to disclose kernel-level anti-cheat on store pages

#421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would bet 90% of people here have at least another laptop if they have a gaming PC, if you’re concerned about being compromised by rootkits, just do your taxes on that.

So you own one machine and Rockstar owns the other?

"Your computer calls me root too"

Re: Steam games will need to disclose kernel-level anti-cheat on store pages

#422

kernel level anticheat is not enough. client inputs have to be trusted, and there is no provenance. the kernel has no visibility of inputs. i’m shipping a 100 player matchmaking game now. clients tick at 360hz, server ticks at 120hz. fair up to 60 ping, which covers entire continents. servers are metal, not vms. epyc 4244p with 2Gbps egress, 1 server per 15 minute game. mitigations=off and nosmt on all clients and th…

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Re: Steam games will need to disclose kernel-level anti-cheat on store pages

#423
post #422

kernel level anticheat is not enough. client inputs have to be trusted, and there is no provenance. the kernel has no visibility of inputs. i’m shipping a 100 player matchmaking game now. clients tick at 360hz, server ticks at 120hz. fair up to 60 ping, which covers entire continents. servers are metal, not vms. epyc 4244p with 2Gbps egress, 1 server per 15 minute game. mitigations=off and nosmt on all clients and th…

[flagged]

handcam anti-cheat is the future.

Re: Steam games will need to disclose kernel-level anti-cheat on store pages

#424

kernel level anticheat is not enough. client inputs have to be trusted, and there is no provenance. the kernel has no visibility of inputs. i’m shipping a 100 player matchmaking game now. clients tick at 360hz, server ticks at 120hz. fair up to 60 ping, which covers entire continents. servers are metal, not vms. epyc 4244p with 2Gbps egress, 1 server per 15 minute game. mitigations=off and nosmt on all clients and th…

DOS era "insert game disk 1 and reboot to play" vibes.

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Re: Steam games will need to disclose kernel-level anti-cheat on store pages

#427
post #422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

handcam anti-cheat is the future.

How does that scale? Handcam anticheat works well for exams and Olympiads where there's limited people and plenty of time to review footage after it's over, but I can't imagine it would work well on Fortnite or Counter Strike unless you staff entire offices reviewing footage full-time. Though I'm also doubtful there'd be many people willing to run an untrusted OS on their computer just for a random game so maybe you wouldn't have that much footage to begin with

Re: Steam games will need to disclose kernel-level anti-cheat on store pages

#428

With the way that computer vision and AI continue to improve, I imagine that we will soon have completely external and undetectable cheating peripherals, simply capture the screen direct from the display output, and pass inputs via mimicking a usb human input device. This won’t provide all the same capabilities as cheats that hook into the game process, such as wall hacks, but it would be possible to build a super hu…

> With the way that computer vision and AI continue to improve, I imagine that we will soon have completely external and undetectable cheating peripherals, simply capture the screen direct from the display output, and pass inputs via mimicking a usb human input device. This already exists. You can stream your screen to another machine running image recognition and pass your mouse input through a controller that injec…

For hacks that don't access program memory directly, would external hardware make things less detectable? I don't know how anti-cheat programs work but I'd be surprised if they banned every skilled player that happens to be running AHK and OBS. More likely they work with heuristics that try to detect super-human mouse movements, precision/speed-wise.

Re: Steam games will need to disclose kernel-level anti-cheat on store pages

#429

With the way that computer vision and AI continue to improve, I imagine that we will soon have completely external and undetectable cheating peripherals, simply capture the screen direct from the display output, and pass inputs via mimicking a usb human input device. This won’t provide all the same capabilities as cheats that hook into the game process, such as wall hacks, but it would be possible to build a super hu…

> With the way that computer vision and AI continue to improve, I imagine that we will soon have completely external and undetectable cheating peripherals, simply capture the screen direct from the display output, and pass inputs via mimicking a usb human input device. This already exists. You can stream your screen to another machine running image recognition and pass your mouse input through a controller that injec…

And all of that for something that is worse - software cheats usually get access to more information than just the pixels rendered to the screen. Seeing through solid walls and stuff like that.

Re: Steam games will need to disclose kernel-level anti-cheat on store pages

#430
post #427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

handcam anti-cheat is the future.

How does that scale? Handcam anticheat works well for exams and Olympiads where there's limited people and plenty of time to review footage after it's over, but I can't imagine it would work well on Fortnite or Counter Strike unless you staff entire offices reviewing footage full-time. Though I'm also doubtful there'd be many people willing to run an untrusted OS on their computer just for a random game so maybe you…

the plan is to let users report bad engagements.

when you lose a fight, you drop into replays without leaving the game. scrub back like in a video editor, and watch the engagement from the other players perspective. the handcam footage is available here. cheating should be obvious. report or no, then return to the game, where you can spectate the rest of the match like a ghost.

fortnite replays are commonly used by pros, but less so by more casual players. their main issue is that you have to leave the game to get to replays. they also only kind of work, and don't show full server fidelity. our server ticks at 120hz, and replays are full fidelity.

lots to figure out still, but that's the idea. ranked won't launch for a while, but i wanted to design around anti-cheat from day 1.

failure is a distinct possibility with this game, that's ok. success would be interesting too.

i'm not quitting the day job to build this game. if it never makes a dime that's ok.

i started this to study fortnite and understand it's tradeoffs. turns out, it's mostly just tech debt and accidents of history. i wanted to see if i could do better, and i could.

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