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OpenAI completes deal that values company at $157B

nytimes.com

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Re: OpenAI completes deal that values company at $157B

#421

Post by lukev »

semanticist wrote: post #420
lukev wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obviously, that's my point. We can do the math. GPT-4o can emit about 70 tokens a second. API pricing is $10/million for output tokens and $2.5/million for input tokens. Assuming a workload where inputs tokens are 10:1 with output tokens, and that I can generate continuous load (constantly generating tokens). I'll end up paying $210/day in API fees, or $76,650 in a year. Let's assume the hardware required to service…

That doesn't sounds like brilliant margins, to be honest. You've left out the entire "running a business" costs, plus the model training costs. They need to pay their staff, offices, and especially lawyers (for all the lawsuits over the scraped content used to train the models). It's not unusual for a startup to not be profitable, and they're obviously not as the company doesn't make a profit , but I'm not sure why i…

Oh they are 100% losing money hand over fist if you include training costs and the eye-watering salaries they pay some of their employees.

I was responding to someone upthread suggesting that they were running even inference at a loss.

Re: OpenAI completes deal that values company at $157B

#422

Post by HaZeust »

staticman2 wrote: post #270
KoolKat23 wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I currently can ask gpt4 to do a high school intelligence level task for me (financial data capture) so the issue?

For one thing high school is a level of education not a "intelligence level". For another thing there is not a single google search result for the phrase "high school intelligence level task". Unless Google is malfunctioning it seems you are just making things up?

you said the same thing twice.

Re: OpenAI completes deal that values company at $157B

#423

Post by vitorgrs »

fnordpiglet wrote: post #408
vitorgrs wrote: post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's like saying Youtube isn't free because there's a subscription...

It’s like saying just because there’s a free offering the product isn’t free. Anyone who has ever built a shareware or demoware product understand the free offering is a funnel to the paid offering and doesn’t exist as an independent part but as an advertisement for the paid product.

Yes, but still a free product. Unless you say that in the future the product won't have a free offering anymore, it's a free product.

Re: OpenAI completes deal that values company at $157B

#424

Post by vitorgrs »

buzzerbetrayed wrote: post #411
vitorgrs wrote: post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's like saying Youtube isn't free because there's a subscription...

No it isn’t. Free tier of YouTube make money from ads. Free tier of ChatGPT is just a funnel for the paid tier. It’s a marketing cost.

Don't you think they will put ads on ChatGPT?

There are several ways to monetize a product (they already make some use of it).

Re: OpenAI completes deal that values company at $157B

#425

Post by [deleted] »

gammarator wrote: post #284
mulmen wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google started as a useful search service then corrupted itself with ads. This is the same thing that Facebook and Reddit did. It’s not hard to imagine an LLM that provides “sponsored” responses. So it’s a long term bet but the idea that Google would lose to an LLM isn’t far fetched to me.

The unit economics appear to be substantially different.

[deleted]

Re: OpenAI completes deal that values company at $157B

#426

Post by saagarjha »

changing1999 wrote: post #403
saagarjha wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People back then didn't use charging networks; they charged at home (or work).

Since I am technically "people", I can assure you that there indeed existed non-Tesla charging stations in 2014. I was living in a medium size city in an apartment. Since your original comment is specifically about cities, I would like to point out that cities are often associated with apartment buildings, lack of individual garages, etc. Even today saying that EV owners in cities mostly rely on charging at home or a…

That wasn't my comment but I will say that lots of people have houses with garages in cities. Those that don't often will choose to not purchase an electric vehicle.

Re: OpenAI completes deal that values company at $157B

#427

Post by KoolKat23 »

sub7 wrote: post #419
KoolKat23 wrote: post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Think you need to read up what transformers actually do (they refine syntactically, semantically and whatever additional way you wish) and what emergent properties they have.

will look into emergent transformers again but I did take cs231n at Stanford and know wtf is up here

If it's of any help, it's the multi-head attention mechanism, one of the more unique characteristics (although it can be done in other NN's).

Re: OpenAI completes deal that values company at $157B

#428

Post by KoolKat23 »

staticman2 wrote: post #397
KoolKat23 wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't shoot the messenger, that's someone else's wording not mine, I'm speaking to their claim. I don't think this wording is something that needs to be analysed to death, after all someone will just move the goalposts (typically by those who want to place human intelligence on some podium as special). This is a task I'd entrust a high school student to do (emphasis on student). They said high school intelligence not…

A forum user above said they are not a serious company with serious people. Would a serious person with a serious interest in "intelligence" make up terms like "high school intelligence". >>>This is a task I'd entrust a high school student to do (emphasis on student). They said high school intelligence not high school education. I'm sure you don't actually believe all high school students are equally intelligent or o…

I can't take you as a serious person if you think serious people are limited to talking in official terms. They can also talk generally and make assumptions, yes that is allowed.

At no point did I say that all students are at the same level.

I can't quite see what issue you have with the all of this, other than you don't like it because you don't like it.

Re: OpenAI completes deal that values company at $157B

#429

Post by Nathanael_M »

adastra22 wrote: post #366
phito wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They haven't. Why are you stating lies as facts?

Artificial: man-made. General: able to solve problem instances drawn from arbitrary domains. Intelligence: definitions vary, but the application of existing knowledge to the solution of posed problems works here. Artificial. General. Intelligence. AGI. As in contrast to narrow intelligence, like AlphaGo or DeepBlue or air traffic control expert systems, ChatGPT is a general intelligence. It is an AGI. What you are ta…

I appreciate these definitions and distinctions. Thanks for sharing. You've helped me understand that I need a better, more precise vocabulary about this topic. I think on an abstract level I would think of AGI as "the brain that's capable of understanding", but I really then have no way to truly define "understanding" in the context of something artificial. Maybe ChatGPT "understands" well enough, if the output is the same.

Re: OpenAI completes deal that values company at $157B

#430

Post by adastra22 »

Nathanael_M wrote: post #429
adastra22 wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Artificial: man-made. General: able to solve problem instances drawn from arbitrary domains. Intelligence: definitions vary, but the application of existing knowledge to the solution of posed problems works here. Artificial. General. Intelligence. AGI. As in contrast to narrow intelligence, like AlphaGo or DeepBlue or air traffic control expert systems, ChatGPT is a general intelligence. It is an AGI. What you are ta…

I appreciate these definitions and distinctions. Thanks for sharing. You've helped me understand that I need a better, more precise vocabulary about this topic. I think on an abstract level I would think of AGI as "the brain that's capable of understanding", but I really then have no way to truly define "understanding" in the context of something artificial. Maybe ChatGPT "understands" well enough, if the output is t…

It does understand to a certain degree for sure. Sometimes it understands impressively well. Sometimes it seems like a special needs case. Ultimately its understanding is different than that of a human’s.

The issue with the “once OpenAI achieves AGI [sic], everything changes” narrative is that it is based off models with infinite integrals in them. If you assume infinite compute capability, anything becomes easy. In reality as we’ve seen, applying GPT-like intelligence to achieve superhuman capabilities, where it is possible at all, is actually quite difficult, field-specific, and time intensive.

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