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Australian employees now have the right to ignore work emails, calls after hours

reuters.com

421–430 of 449 posts

Re: Australian employees now have the right to ignore work emails, calls after hours

#421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That adds one more opportunity to forget though. There’s no need to be condescending.

Yes, there is a need to be condescending. Outsourcing your personal notepad by emailing people off-hours is silly, rude, and abusive. That kind of behavior warrants direct confrontation and aggressive ridicule.

No, it doesn’t.

I live nine time zones away from some colleagues. I’m not going to schedule every email. They can read it in their working hours.

Re: Australian employees now have the right to ignore work emails, calls after hours

#422

I've dabbled in management a few times in my career. This meant attending manager-only meetings and trainings. I'll never forget one time when a manager in a focus group said something along the lines of, "The tech sector is going through a rough patch, so we can turn the screws on our employees and they'll have to take it because they will have a hard time trying to find a job somewhere else." This is at a company w…

> After I picked my jaw up off the floor I realized I simply lacked the scruples I'd need to be "one of them." This is the reason why I always tell young engineers to treat companies with utmost business-only mentality. It's not that all managers are bad. It's that the company rewards psychopathic behaviors - that aren't easily apparent to humble people. Companies are merely out there squeezing and exploring employee…

> that aren't easily apparent to humble people.

This is indeed a major problem. The stereotypical engineers is such a humble personality. A kind of almost idiot-savant syndrome.

Re: Australian employees now have the right to ignore work emails, calls after hours

#423
post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Experienced teachers likely have it down. Or can just use whatever was done in previous years. But you have set standards changed every 10-20 years at least. And maybe new textbook that has things in bit different order. Or there is some topical thing. Lesson planning is really looking at book and items there thinking how much time going over it with current group takes and then considering what items or things are n…

Okay, I get it now. Lesson plans are something that can only be done on the fly and are more about adapting to things outside the control of the teacher e.g. one lesson took longer due to a disruption in the classroom. I was wondering why the people who set the curriculum couldn't just make a year's worth of lesson plans and email them to each teacher. Thanks for the explainer (to everyone who replied).

Lesson plans are inherently individual to a teacher. So even if a year’s worth of lesson plans was created and shared, and even if I thought they were good, it would still take non-negligible time for me to absorb them and mentally plan how I was going to use them.

That’s the tip of the iceberg in my attempt to explain the complexity of teaching.

Re: Australian employees now have the right to ignore work emails, calls after hours

#424
post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why was it worse for the restaurants than the alternative? Why was the rent increased, by how much, and by who?? What was the difference between the payments and how much did it diff from market over time or at whatever time you're talking about. I'm an LP in GGC so I have lots of thoughts, happy to hear yours in detail!

Was the rent increased? Yes. By how much? By enough to hurt the restaraunts. I'd be happy to hear from you the specifics of how much it was increased, per-restaurant, if that's what you're referring to. Was it worse for the individual restaraunts than not jacking up the rent? Yes, paying more is worse than paying less. Was it worse than not being bought out by PE? Probably, but that's the sort of prophesizing about w…

It's not prophesying given we have additional facts we could include to play out the alternative (socioeconomics)- if you wanted to engage from a place of intellectual honesty, that is.

Re: Australian employees now have the right to ignore work emails, calls after hours

#425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But completely eliminating planned on-call rotations is not part of the goal. It certainly should be. You want your app supported 24x7 then pay for three shifts. If the government won’t make it a law then IT workers can make it a demand when they unionize.

Tripling the cost of running a tech company in Australia is effectively outlawing startups.

the document starts with framing it applies to "non small business", so an early start up can still function with a small team of motivated volunteers outside hours, but beyond a certain size i agree with the sibling comments: if a late startup still relies on that to survive/grow, then its business model isn't working.

Re: Australian employees now have the right to ignore work emails, calls after hours

#426
post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah but the “very clear speech” came later, after the decision was made. After redemption was possible. At that point you’re just reinforcing your perceptions. Your job as a manager is to manage that expectation. If you fire someone for it that’s your failure.

> Yeah but the “very clear speech” came later, after the decision was made. Huh? I clearly stated they had another three months at that point. Nothing changed, so they got the boot three months later. What the heck do you expect? Another two years? At this point I have to assume malice from your side. I guess you're just one of these people yourself. Blame everyone and everything but yourself.

> I clearly stated they had another three months at that point. Nothing changed, so they got the boot three months later.

Yes, and I clearly stated your mind was already made up so that didn’t matter. It was impossible for them to change your mind.

> What the heck do you expect? Another two years?

Your job as a manager is to address these issues before they become fireable. You know, to manage.

> At this point I have to assume malice from your side.

This is an internet forum, relax. What does it even mean to be malicious in an internet comment? I’m not taking away your livelihood.

> I guess you're just one of these people yourself.

“These people”? Is this still a thread about you not being racist?

> Blame everyone and everything but yourself.

Go look in a mirror.

Much like a blameless root cause analysis I believe a firing is a failure of the organization. How did this person get hired in the first place? How did you fail to coach them? What did the organization learn to avoid a repeat?

Re: Australian employees now have the right to ignore work emails, calls after hours

#427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I would also expect that guidance of "don't read your e-mail outside of working hours" would be sufficient to be able to send e-mail to employees at any day or hour I sometimes want to send my employees emails over the weekend as I think of something and don't want to forget. But there are certain employees that I know will immediately act on the email, which I actually don't want. So I end up emailing myself and t…

> I think of something and don't want to forget. This is a you problem. Fix the forgetting part, you are management that's literally your job. Leave a post it somewhere, start keeping a checklist, whatever. Stop making it your employees' problem.

He did fix the forgetting part, that's what sending an email to himself was for

Re: Australian employees now have the right to ignore work emails, calls after hours

#428
post #243

I like the Swiss implementation of this. A manager _can_ contact an employee on a Sunday, but then the employee is immediately on weekend-rate overtime even if they just got an email with "deal with this next week". So, many companies have systems that hold back e-mail sent outside of working hours until the next working day unless specially authorised and costed. Never underestimate an economics-based solution to a…

Is everything hourly there? Would this work with salaried employees that don't log hours? Or maybe everyone does? A running joke in my first company out of school was "can't wait to see that overtime check!" whenever we saw someone working after 5. The implication is no one ever gets overtime as a salaried employee.

Differs from country to country. In DE, salaried employees still have a number of hours/week in their contract (usually ~38) and are expected to log overtime and later take time in lieu. Max. permissible work hours per week is 48.

There are a bunch of exceptions for specific jobs.

The working hours, comp+ben etc. are usually determined by collective agreement with unions.

Pay for the same job can vary dramatically depending on which union your employer has a collective agreement with.

I know several people who got 25-30% pay rises just by moving to another part of the company that had an agreement with IG Metall instead of ver.di.

Re: Australian employees now have the right to ignore work emails, calls after hours

#429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's wrong with sending an email out of office hours? I don't understand the sentiment, even though I've seen some people express it. Nobody's gonna read that email until Monday anyway - or at least shouldn't.

it's the "at least shouldn't" that's what's wrong. if your director sends an email late Friday night and your amalgamation of devices and nervous habits ends up seeing it before 9am Monday, it's going to sit in your brain, messing up your off-work hours. so "send at 9am" is just being courteous these days.

If your own nervous habits lead you to checking work emails outside of work, it sounds like you were preoccupied with thoughts about work regardless of whether or not you received an email. No, the correct solution if you can't ignore a notification is to either block notifications from work apps entirely, or to create a notification schedule that blocks work apps outside of given hours. That schedule should be made during work hours, of course.

Re: Australian employees now have the right to ignore work emails, calls after hours

#430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are economic systems in which 100% of the value produced is paid out to laborers. We're just not in one. > Exploitation only starts at stripping your company's assets (labor, loyalty, real estate, supplies, customer goodwill) in order to boost other aspects - usually 3 and 4. First, this is merely an opinion. It's not a matter of me "misunderstanding" exploitation. It's an opinion that this is when exploitation…

> There are economic systems in which 100% of the value produced is paid out to laborers. We're just not in one. You will need to give examples. > Also, this is UNAVOIDABLE. You MUST, necessarily, take some money away from labor to give it to 3 and 4. Absolutely. Can you point at where this was not implied? > Your entire thought process rests on this word here - "stripping". What is that? When does that begin? This w…

The problem is you're not able to quantify where the problem begins. I am, the problem starts at 0.

Apparently there's a point where siphoning money from labor becomes bad. When is that point, according to you? You have no idea. What's that number? I dunno. Apparently nobody on Earth knows.

But you're telling me you understand exploitation? Yeah, fat chance. It's obvious you've gave a very minimal amount of mental effort into your views and outlook on economy and just ran with it. If you're not actually able to quantify what the problems are, reliably, you don't have an opinion. You have a delusion that makes you feel good. Which, granted, is easier and simpler to sell to voters. But it's also nothing - it's fluff.

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