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CockroachDB license change

cockroachlabs.com

421–430 of 476 posts

Re: CockroachDB license change

#421
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it hasn't been open-source since 02019 according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CockroachDB#History so if there are popular forks they'd have to be five years old

> 02019 Why not 002019? 6 digits. That would be valid a lot longer.

i wholeheartedly support your choice to henceforth format your years with six digits

Re: CockroachDB license change

#422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the problem with the Enterprise edition is that it's quite expensive Seems to me that it's still free for development, and small business use. If you're over $10M in revenue, with a business or product built on CockroachDB, they want a share of what they made possible. That seems totally reasonable to me.

You'd be a fool to put all your eggs in this basket: > Annual term. Can be renewed subject to meeting the then-current eligibility requirements

OK, use a different database then if you don't like the terms.

Re: CockroachDB license change

#423

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Amazon will make a product on top of open-source VictoriaMetrics, then we'll say thanks to Amazon, since this is great marketing - more people will be aware of great products provided by VictoriaMetrics! There is close to zero probability that Amazon will pay us for this product, so there is no any sense in changing the license from Apache2 to some BSL-like license, since they never sign long-term contracts with o…

But if I could just go to Amazon directly,presumably they'd offer support, how do I give you money. I just don't understand how for-profit company can develop true open source software. You can have a non profit foundation and a for profit support studio. Godot effectively does this. Plus if you've taken VC money you can always get voted out in a few years. Or just have a nice exit. I wouldn't be mad at anyone for ta…

Not everyone is able to or wants to use other peoples' computers.

Re: CockroachDB license change

#424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems that whenever an open source project is run by a VC-backed company, it sooner or later ends up like this. Increasingly it seems that "open source" is just the teaser to get people interested and then when investors want revenue growth, the rug gets pulled. IMO, it's not really open source if its run by a company that will eventually use its position to squeeze its users for cash.

Like other folks have said, anytime you see a CLA, you see the true intentions of the project. A project that will always be FOSS won't have a need for a CLA.

Even if a project/company doesn't have a CLA, I don't think that is any sort of guarantee that their license won't change in the future.

Re: CockroachDB license change

#425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The last time I priced out CockroachDB it was more than 10x what multi region SpannerDB would cost.

That is very interesting. As CRDB user, I priced Spanner (had to do some estimates during load testing), and Spanner came 3 times more expensive includign our eng salary to run CRDB

I'm long gone and never signed anything so have no problem mentioning that we were quoted USD$150/m per vCPU core with a 12-month commitment (from memory).

The project called for a minimum of 4 replicas and likely 8 vCPUs per, so right off the bat that's close to $60k/year before you even do anything. Plus the unwelcome addition of "license anxiety" to the whole development experience, and being forced to make a big decision up front.. it's not how I like to work or what a startup needs.

Re: CockroachDB license change

#426

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> AGPL requires you only to provide the source code of your fork to its users The AGPLv3 is exactly the same as the GPLv3, except with the added clause that connecting to a server counts as distribution for the purposes of triggering the right to obtain source code. That means all the usual GPL copyleft rules apply: if you include an AGPL library in your server binary, the entire binary becomes subject to the AGPL. A…

Yes, but are there any AGPL-licensed libraries? I've only seen runnable binaries licensed under AGPL. I can theoretically imagine one, "if you want to build a server application using my binary, I don't want you hiding my source code from your users", but even GPL-licensed libraries are rare, LGPL is more common.

Not a whole lot, at any rate. The poster child was probably BerkleyDB, but the current version is vended from a fork which still uses the pre-AGPL license terms

Re: CockroachDB license change

#427
post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The FSF does not require a CLA.

If they don't that is something new. Do you know when that started (or rather, stopped)?

This stopped a long time ago. Many older GNU projects still have them, but newer ones are not required to have them. Some have even made their usage optional.

An example of a project making it optional is GCC itself: https://gcc.gnu.org/pipermail/gcc/2021-June/236182.html

Re: CockroachDB license change

#428

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm imagining that those closed source softwares wouldn't be possible without open source libraries and tools...

In the sense that most modern programming languages and compilers are open-source, sure, nothing outside the embedded world can truly be built without relying on open source. There are still native shops that rely on very little open source, though at this point probably only in niches like gamedev or defence.

This is not true even in those spaces anymore. Games these days require libraries like SDL, or (increasingly) use engines like Godot.

Defense is a weird place, but open source is used quite a lot there, it's often required to do so and to record the open source consumed to produce a product. And often times, it must be commercial open source where you can get engineering support for the lifetime of the product's existence.

Re: CockroachDB license change

#429
post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OSI, and the open source definition they produced, predate the very notion of public cloud by close to a decade. While you don’t have to accept the definition, you are out of step with the industry at large, who broadly use “open source” to refer to things which meet the OSI definition. There’s no need for a competing definition: it’s fine for software to not be open source. As to the specifics of SSPL, I personally…

At large? As you can see, there is room for a community with a different view on that. My personal definition of an "open source license" is that, as the name implies, I can access the code, preferably without much gatekeeping (e.g., creating a free account in a private GitLab instance). And, to be honest, I prefer the BSL with an Additional Use Grant over any other license, because this is the most reliable option t…

You are welcome to choose that, but in my opinion, it isn't open source. I think open source should means anyone can contribute or take, and contributions are shared, without undue discrimination. Nobody is forced to work on the project, but if they are then they have to give the results of their work back to the common pool they took from. You have just as much power to keep the project going as anyone else does, including the current "maintainer".

Re: CockroachDB license change

#430
post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Unfortunately the Apache Foundation structure has some (an unspecified number greater than zero) "kill all the Muslims now!" Yuk. It is a trap to condem the foundation because of some people who are nasty outside the foundation If they were enabled to stand in the way of Mahdi Islam, or their mates participating then there would be a problem We have a problem in tech with naive fascists and fascist enablers. We mus…

>We have a problem in tech with naive fascists and fascist enablers. No we don't.

We have a problem with "he may be a really shitty person but we ignore that because he does the work". In some cases where that person does a lot of work, it may be unavoidable. In other cases where the person does only a small amount of work, it's a mistake not to push back on their bad beliefs.

A similar but opposite problem is pushing back too much on things that don't matter. E.g. a core python developer and inventor of Timsort just got a 3 month suspension for liking a comedy skit that used the word "slut", and for thinking that it's possible to discriminate against white people.

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