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Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

news.patreon.com

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Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#421

Post by kelnos »

diggan wrote: post #309
Izkata wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Putting it in quotes is misleading, they are actually being forced: > Apple has also made clear that if creators on Patreon continue to use unsupported billing models or disable transactions in the iOS app, we will be at risk of having the entire app removed from their App Store.

> Putting it in quotes is misleading, they are actually being forced: They're not literally forced, they have a choice: A) abide by the rules of the platform or B) leave the platform. I agree that it's shitty by Apple, but if you start playing the game (being on the AppStore), don't be surprised when you have to continue playing the game by adjusting how you do things.

That's not really a choice. That's "either do what we say, or your business will be destroyed".

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#423

Post by talldayo »

underlipton wrote: post #398
neilv wrote: post #125

Since at least the 1980s, IT had the concepts of "open systems" and "interoperation", to support market competition and innovation. And we later did things like the Web and other open standards. Then Apple comes along, and uses its market position as a hardware and OS vendor, to make a nonstandard software download thing that could've been a Web site. In parallel, Apple also made open-standards Web apps unattractive…

>What I don't understand is why regulators haven't smacked the snot out of the Apple app store, with finality. I imagine that part of it is that Apple's stock backstops a lot of activity in the financial markets. No one wants to kill the golden goose to protect "a bunch of Millennial and Zoomer phone addicts"; you have to remember, we're the cows everyone else is happy to milk dry for their own needs.

Bingo - give this guy a cigar.

The EU had a tenuous relation with Apple from the start. Apple spent the past 20-odd years manipulating Irish subsidiaries to avoid paying a dime in taxes on any of their European operations. Despite being called out on it and partially settling the back-taxes in some jurisdictions, they still owe billions to multiple EU members they haven't payed back. There's no history of love, between Apple and Europe. They conspire against Apple because Apple conspires against them.

Then Apple had to kick the hornets nest and piss off the Dutch regulators with the Tinder case. Apple forfeit quickly but it set the stage for everyone else joining in on the fines. This was the perfect catalyst for the DMA and the DSA, which would be copied in other countries like Japan (which coincidentally also has tax feuds with Apple).

Good luck to the shareholders They won't take kindly to the news that the Apple of their eye is a big fruit-shaped bubble.

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#424

Post by gigel82 »

mensetmanusman wrote: post #66

I like being able to cancel subscriptions from the App Store, it’s a huge advantage because companies will usually try to make it difficult to cancel.

Then you should get the option to pay a 30% surcharge for that privilege.

Others can choose to use virtual credit cards that come for free (or cheap) from their bank or privacy.com for that purpose.

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#425

Post by matwood »

xyst wrote: post #360

It’s odd how Apple picks and chooses where to enforce this requirement. Netflix has been using their own billing system for years, yet I can still download Netflix on iOS, tvOS app stores. Makes me wonder if there is an under the table deal between Netflix and Apple. On the topic of Patreon vs Apple. I am not a lawyer but this seems to have the same basis as the Epic Games vs Apple litigation.

I know for awhile Netflix had this weird thing where you called a phone number and they would direct you to the Netflix website to sign up.

It's not having their own billing system, but allowing purchases to be made in-app that triggers the requirement. Which as far as I can tell, Netflix does not allow. I just checked and I can't change my plan in the app.

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#426

Post by meagher »

jprete wrote: post #10

I remember reading that per-creation billing is a very important feature for Patreon creators, because it removes the moral obligation to produce content just to justify a subscription. If Patreon really doesn't want to kill the feature itself, but is just responding to Apple's enforcement, then it seems like a really clear illustration of monopoly power - pushing unrelated markets to change their own structure and p…

Where did you read that? I worked at Patreon from 2018-2021 and per creation was a much smaller group than recurring during that time at least. (Think per creation was even disabled as an option for new sign-ups for a while.)

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#427

Post by kelnos »

shagie wrote: post #181
wpm wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And watch loads of creators lose a good portion of their livelihood and leave the platform?

One could create a web app based Pateron and use the web based push notifications. https://imgur.com/a/JccxAIs for the process for how to do this on an iPhone. The challenge (as always) is accessibility and discoverability. The functionality is all there.

> The challenge (as always) is accessibility and discoverability.

And that's the challenge that actually matters, and is more or less insurmountable on iOS.

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#428

Post by kevin_thibedeau »

bkraz wrote: post #80

As a longtime YouTube creator who uses Patreon for financial support, the news is terrible: Patreon informed me that all creators must switch to a monthly subscription schedule instead of the per-creation schedule that I and many other currently use. The whole point of per-creation is that it allows me to take time off, and only charge people when I release something, thus incentivizing me, and being fair to my suppo…

Write to your Representative and Senator Wyden before you switch.

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#429

Post by nomad41 »

saratogacx wrote: post #277
derefr wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They still don't support upgrades/upgrade pricing. What would this mean, exactly? You can sell people a demo→full-version permanent unlock as a one-time purchase, same as you can sell DLC in a game. And you can also have subscription tiers, where you get more features out of the higher tiers of subscriptions. And you can, in theory, freely mix these — e.g. charging someone a subscription for the base version, and t…

The model is the "old school" model for software sales. The first version you sell to a user at full price and offer a discount for upgrading (something like 40% off). It lets the customer pick when they feel the value prop is worth the cost and lets you offer a loyalty incentive to the user. Right now the choice is "keep paying for it to keep working" or "fully price for every upgrade".

I don’t exactly remember how it went but ~5 years ago Goodnotes 5 came out and they offered a “bundle” of Goodnotes 4 and 5 together at the same price of Goodnotes 5. Maybe owners of version 4 had some kind of discount on the bundle because they already owned half of it?
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