Noam Chomsky 'no longer able to talk' after 'medical event' • Hacker News Board

Re: Noam Chomsky 'no longer able to talk' after 'medical event'

#421

Post by foldr » Wed, Jun 12, 2024, 6:05 PM UTC

YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #415

foldr wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> security guarantees for Ukraine This is laughable. Russia cannot give any credible security guarantee to a country that it has just invaded! The war has shown precisely that Russia still believes that it has the right to control Ukraine and that any negotiated peace is nothing more than a temporary pause in hostilities in anticipation of a more opportune moment for Russia. Putin is a cypher and no-one really knows…

>> Russia cannot give any credible security guarantee to a country that it has just invaded! Security guarantees would be provided by Western countries, not only Russia.

Ukraine is in no need of further security guarantees from Western countries save the one guarantee that Russia will never accept: NATO membership. Without that – and the associated obligation to offer a direct military response to Russian aggression – it's difficult to see how any security guarantee could possibly extend beyond what Western countries are already providing.

Russia's key conditions for the supposed "deal" that you refer to were that (i) the size of the Ukrainian army would be heavily constrained and that (ii) Russia would have a veto on any response to future aggression against Ukraine. Ukraine rejected the deal because it would have been worthless.

Re: Noam Chomsky 'no longer able to talk' after 'medical event'

#422

Post by YeGoblynQueenne » Wed, Jun 12, 2024, 6:05 PM UTC

corimaith wrote: post #412

YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well it seems to be well-established MAD orthodoxy that if your enemy has nukes right at your border, and you don't have nukes right at their border, your deterrence ability is diminished. See: the Cuban Missile Crisis: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_Missile_Crisis In any case, even in a MAD setting every side will be constantly trying to manoeuver to a position of advantage. That's what military people do when…

Where are you getting your sources from here? The Cuban Missile Crisis occurred in the context of the early 1960s whereby bombers were the primary method of delivery. Since the late 1960s, the ICBM is the bedrock of the MAD strategy, and the need of a second-strike capability via SSBNs and hidden silos after absorbing a nuclear attack. >In any case, even in a MAD setting every side will be constantly trying to manoeu…

>> If NATO actually invaded, they'd caught with their pants down.

The problem with that is that NATO is next door to Russia now. Nuclear deterrence doesn't work that well when it means nuking your foot.

Seen another way, Russia doesn't need ICBMs to reach London, Paris, Berlin...

But, really, try to think more carefully of what you're discussing: nuclear war. The threat to the existence of human civilisation from that is too big for macho politics and "we're stronger than them" braggadocio. As Chomsky pointed out once, and as aggravating as this is, that means letting assholes get away with murder on the international scene; which means not just Russia, but also the US, Israel, China, and who knows who else, in time.

Re: Noam Chomsky 'no longer able to talk' after 'medical event'

#423

Post by racional » Wed, Jun 12, 2024, 6:28 PM UTC

YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #416

racional wrote: post #403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Putin wanted to recreate Imperial Russia, or the Soviet Union, then why would he negotiate for peace? Because as he keeps saying over and over -- the only "peace" he will accept is one in which his claims to sovereignty on the territories he is currently sitting are recognized by Western powers. This was his core demand during the Istanbul talks, and it's his current demand now (though he's upped it a bit recently…

That's probably because the wars started by "the West" (US and allies) are significantly more than the wars started by Russia or the USSR. See: vietnam, Korea, Iraq, Afghanistan. Not that Russia is some big supporter of peace, but the US and its allies are the current global bully. And you don't need Mearsheimer to tell you that.

So if Russia wants to get to play the top bully too, for a while -- well, we should just cut them some slack and let them have their way for a while? Because fair is fair, right?

That seems to be the essence of your argument here.

(None of those wars are directly analogous to what Russia is doing to Ukraine right now of course; but never mind that for now).

Re: Noam Chomsky 'no longer able to talk' after 'medical event'

#424

Post by hi41 » Wed, Jun 12, 2024, 6:35 PM UTC

I watched some of the documentaries such as the ine about manufacturing consent.

What I don’t understand is this: the news agencies don’t report to the government. Then why would they work together with the government to mislead the people? Does anyone know?

Noam is so amazingly smart, he is probably one a billion. Sometimes I am not sure he is right but can’t really formulate why or what is it that I don’t agree.

Re: Noam Chomsky 'no longer able to talk' after 'medical event'

#425

Post by Heliodex » Wed, Jun 12, 2024, 7:04 PM UTC

adastra22 wrote: post #363

Heliodex wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm unsure as well but either way this is fascinating; I've only ever heard the term 'scrip' used with negative connotations so this seems like a very refreshing change. The way the currency value was kept stable also looks to me like a great benefit. Welp, now I gotta write a blockchain that tries to match this experiment as closely as possible

That would be Freicoin. One of the earliest altcoins, btw.

Wow yes, I had looked into Freicoin several times but the reasoning behind the demurrage fee hadn't stuck with me until now.

Re: Noam Chomsky 'no longer able to talk' after 'medical event'

#426

Post by renegade-otter » Wed, Jun 12, 2024, 7:56 PM UTC

slantedview wrote: post #263

credit_guy wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I love Noam Chomsky so much. I don't. There are some things out there that are up for debate. But not Russia's invasion of Ukraine. Chomsky, for some weird reason, chose to take Russia's side. Edit: To be sure, I wish him full recovery and many more happy years. https://www.e-flux.com/notes/470005/open-letter-to-noam-chom...

> Chomsky, for some weird reason, chose to take Russia's side. This is a mischaracterization. He explained Russia's stated motivation for invading Ukraine, that it felt threatened by NATO's continual eastward encroachment and breaking of promises not to do so. That's different than endorsing the invasion, which he did not.

Which is basically Russian propaganda. NATO is an invite-only alliance. Ukraine has been begging to be in it, but Russia creates alliances the old-fashioned way - by invading, then raping and pillaging. Name one country that NATO "forced" into the alliance, I'll wait.

All this talk of "poor Russia and its thirteen timezones felt threatened by a defensive alliance" is complete bullshit. It's the "she looked at me wrong so I stabbed her" defense, and the fact that Chomsky could not see right through this is telling.

The explanation is much simpler - Putin wanted to add a slice to the empire, and miscalculated that the West would do nothing, like it did before. And then the bitching and moaning ensued.

Did the neutral Sweden consider joining NATO before the invasion? No. Poor Russia, besieged by all sides by the neighbors who do not want to die defending against Russian recidivist meat waves and in torture cellars.

Just. Stop. It.

Re: Noam Chomsky 'no longer able to talk' after 'medical event'

#427

Post by racional » Wed, Jun 12, 2024, 7:56 PM UTC

racional wrote: post #403

YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> So it's sad to see anyone falling for Putin's lies so easily. (See also Mearshimer.) Mearsheimer can be a bit too convincing for his own good, surely. What he has argued that is certainly convincing is that Russia was ready to negotiate a peace at the start of the war, when Russians and Ukrainians met in Belarus and then in Istanbul. If Putin wanted to recreate Imperial Russia, or the Soviet Union, then why would…

If Putin wanted to recreate Imperial Russia, or the Soviet Union, then why would he negotiate for peace? Because as he keeps saying over and over -- the only "peace" he will accept is one in which his claims to sovereignty on the territories he is currently sitting are recognized by Western powers. This was his core demand during the Istanbul talks, and it's his current demand now (though he's upped it a bit recently…

"... territories on which he is currently sitting ..."

Re: Noam Chomsky 'no longer able to talk' after 'medical event'

#428

Post by johnea » Wed, Jun 12, 2024, 9:31 PM UTC

> she explained why the usually responsive academic “hasn’t been returning emails, or interviewing”.

I was amazed when he replied to my email, asking a polical history question, with a thoughtful and personal reply.

The only other person I could think of even being close to his stature is Howard Zinn.

It may be a long shot, but I'm still hoping for his recovery.

This man has done more for humanity than a billion billionaire-bills could ever aquire...

Re: Noam Chomsky 'no longer able to talk' after 'medical event'

#429

Post by jesterson » Wed, Jun 12, 2024, 9:39 PM UTC

tim333 wrote: post #394

jesterson wrote: post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But not Russia's invasion of Ukraine. Chomsky, for some weird reason, chose to take Russia's side. Taking sides is a sign of emotional, not intellectual approach. And Russia/Ukraine conflict is way far from good fighting evil simplified construct. I don't like leftists in general and Chomsky in particlar, but I give him huge respect for intellectual and independent position, which will cause him losing appreciation…

There's a 2023 interveiw with him here on Ukraine https://truthout.org/articles/chomsky-a-stronger-nato-is-the... I'd say rather than emotional he has the usual academic thing of being up in one specialist area - in this case US imperialism and not up on another speciality like Russia's history of invasion, expansion and the like.

Its my poor wording to blame - when i said emotional i was referring rather to the commenter who attributed Chomsky position to taking sides.

I agree its well thought position. As much as I disagree with him on many matters, he is absolutely right here. Besides being right, it takes immense courage to go against mainstream (which he apparently did all his life) and that’s something i can’t avoid admiring.

Re: Noam Chomsky 'no longer able to talk' after 'medical event'

#430

Post by throwaway8877 » Wed, Jun 12, 2024, 10:16 PM UTC

sitkack wrote: post #71

I love Noam Chomsky so much. To me he is epitome of what a rational caring intellectual should be. Number one, he strives for the truth and while can have intellectual blind spots, isn't afraid of calling them out. We had him has a guest speaker for an internal presentation at Google and of course we had some hyper-rational libertarian eastern block swe kid who was going to take him down and Noam was super respectful…

He is a genocide supporting cancer. The only thing that he cares is to be against US, so he supports Serbia and Putin. He has no problem to lie and deceive.